# Cashiers aren't allowed to count their tills anymore because.... WHAT?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [August 31, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763 "2003-08-31T05:03:59Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/41 "2003-09-01T18:18:38Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by FriarTed \*  
> \*\*  
> RE Thea’s situation, Open Door policy, Sis! Call to DM or Loss Prevention Mngr. SM’s can create policy out of thin air & claim it came from on high until DM on up are informed of those littlel surprises. \*\*

Ah, yes, the Open Your Mouth and We’ll Show You The Door Policy. Wal-Mart in notorious for terminating employees who complain about unfair policies. Surf the 'net a bit, you’ll see what I mean. The SM is not claiming the edct came from the DM. I suppose I could try to appeal to a higher power, but I need this job too much, and making waves in Wally World is dangerous.

Remember, we’re talking about Wal-Mart here, not an honest company that is interested in treating its employees fairly.

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**Author:** ![7\_up\_yours](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/919ad9/32.png) [@7\_up\_yours](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7_up_yours)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/42 "2003-09-01T18:36:07Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*  
> \*\*Walmart sells products mad in China by slave labor. Look at ome of the stuff next time you’re in Walmart, especially the really cheap stuff. If it says “made in China” it was made by slaves, and probably by _child_ slaves. \*\*

Unless you were:

a) Once living in China and was a child slave

b) Owned a company in China that used child slave

or

c) Have been in China and actually seen these so called child slaves working and getting no money for it

then all that you said was just ignorant spiel.

Made in China? Big fucking deal. If you stepped into virtually any store, you would see at least one product that it was made in China. China is not as “third world” as you think it is, so either get a cite to back up your arguement or shut the fuck up.

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**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/43 "2003-09-01T18:37:04Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by mhendo \*  
> \*\*Actually, whether one agrees with **Diogenes** ’s opinion or not (and everything i’ve read abut Wal-Mart suggests that he makes some very good points), your argument in this paragraph is logically inconsistent.
> 
> Firstly, while the idea of people as “rational maximizers” has an important place in economic theory, too many people who use this term fail to appreciate the non-economic motives that are so important in many people’s decisions.
> 
> Secondly, and much more importantly for this discussion, if people really _are_ the rational maximizers that you claim, then there is no contradiction at all in the fact that a dehumanizing workplace can still find workers. After all, if Wal-Mart drives out local competition, as it often does, and these people have very limited (or no) choice over where they can find a job, rational maximization dictates that they will take a dehumanizing job over no job at all.
> 
> Simply put, the fact that people actually work at Wal-Mart does not mean that those same people particularly like the workplace, and the well-documented attempts of Wal-Mart worker to unionize, in the face of opposition and intimidation by the company, suggests that at least some of the workers are less than thrilled with their working conditions.
> 
> I’m not saying that all Wal-Mart workers are unhappy, but to argue that people would not choose to work in a bad workplace is to deny your own theory of people as rational maximizers, because a rational maximizer will work in a poor environment rather than starve. \*\*

Right, I understand what you’re saying. I’m not arguing that working conditions must be 100% excellent simply because people work there. My position is that an outsider’s opinion on whether walmart’s working conditions are “dehumanizing” don’t really matter; the fact is that walmart isn’t doing anything illegal, and the people that work there don’t think it’s so bad that they won’t work there.

Also, on your use of the term “rational maximizer”: I think the term is broad enough to encompass what you call “non-economic motives.” Gotta run, so I have to leave this a little ambiguous for now.

Why hasn’t DtC defended his BS yet?

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**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/44 "2003-09-01T18:42:45Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Darth Nader \*  
> \*\*Could we save the dumping on Wall-Mart for another thread?
> 
> My guess is that the Loss Prevention folks at your store are setting up either a CSM or someone in the cash office for an arrest. Yes, it sucks, and management has clearly not done the right thing there.
> 
> Then you bring on your peeves about the “rollback” and clearance stuff… \*\*

Hey, my thread, my gripes. Also, this is the BBQ Pit. My gripe is about a dishonest employer treating its employees unfairly, and I was citing examples of dishonesty that extended beynod their treatmen of the employees.

\*\*

[quote]  
I seem to be the only happy Wal-Mart dude here. Yes, I’m the guy who helps you connect a dvd player to your TV, the one that tells you that a zip disk won’t fit in your floppy drive, and the guy that reminds you to check your batteries before you return that remote. I would have gone insane a long time ago, if it were not for the good things about my job.\*\*

[quote]

You are sick. You need help. Wal-Mart is evil. Or, maybe you’re an evil troll or some sort of demonic being who gets off on that sort of thing…

> [@](#):
>
> **Thea Logica** , you sound upset about a few more things besides counting your till. \*\*

Well, yeah, there’s the fact that I have chronic back pain and they refuse to transfer me to another department, claiming “there are no openings” when all the departments are short-staffed and screaming for more help, especially on my shift. (A doctors note might help, but most of the doctors in this town seem to be unaware that soft-tissue damage won’t show up on an x-ray, in spite of the fact that I’ve told them I’ve had x-rays before and nothing showed up, but I’m still in pain, so instead of sending me for testing that will show if there’s any soft tissue damage, they send me for another round of x-rays…)And the fact that the pay is so great that we have full-time employees who qualify for food stamps.

\*\*

> [@](#):
>
> If you think it’s a McJob, it will be. If you work at it, things suddenly fall into place.  
> For instance, right now, I need another beer.
> 
> And here it is!
> 
> “Glog.” \*\*

Beer? You have beer? Gimme one, dammit. No wonder you’re so freaking happy, you having beer and not sharing it with your coworkers person, you. \*\*\*GIMME A FREAKING BEER!!!

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**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/45 "2003-09-01T19:42:27Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by TaxGuy \*
> 
> Right, I understand what you’re saying. I’m not arguing that working conditions must be 100% excellent simply because people work there. My position is that an outsider’s opinion on whether walmart’s working conditions are “dehumanizing” don’t really matter; **the fact is that walmart isn’t doing anything illegal** , and the people that work there don’t think it’s so bad that they won’t work there.

You might want to revise the bolded statement, in light of some of the evidence available. To wit:

According to [Forbes](http://www.forbes.com/newswire/2003/07/17/rtr1028827.html), Wal-Mart’s pending lawsuits include:

> [@](#):
>
> - WAGE-AND-HOUR CLAIMS - Plaintiffs are hourly employees who allege that the company forced them to work off the clock and failed to provide work breaks. Wal-Mart faces at least 43 such claims.
> 
> – The California Department of Labor Standards Enforcement is investigating Wal-Mart and Sam’s Club for alleged failures to comply with California wage-and-hour laws.
> 
> – Wal-Mart faces four lawsuits brought by employees who allege that the company failed to pay overtime.
> 
> - DISCRIMINATION CASES - Wal-Mart is a defendant in a California lawsuit that alleges that the company discriminates against women in promotions, pay, training and job assignments. Wal-Mart said if it loses this case, it could have a material effect on the company.
> 
> - INSURANCE ISSUES - Wal-Mart is named in five lawsuits alleging that it took out corporate-owned life insurance policies that pay the company – not relatives – upon an employee’s death.
> 
> – Wal-Mart also faces a class-action lawsuit over its refusal to cover prescription contraceptives for women as part of its health coverage plan.
> 
> – Source: Wal-Mart quarterly report filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission

Now, firstly, i realize that the simple filing of these lawsuits does not make Wal-Mart guilty. However, the fact that, as this [Forbes](http://www.forbes.com/2003/07/23/cz_eh_0723wmt.html) article says,

> [@](#):
>
> But these days, blue-vested Wal-Mart greeters are far from cheerful. They have filed more than three dozen separate lawsuits in 30 states accusing Wal-Mart of violating federal wage-and-hour rules, sex discrimination (see Wal-Mart’s Women Troubles) and threatening workers involved in union activities.

suggests that all is not harmony and light in Sam’s kingdom.

This [USA Today](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/08/14/walmart-usat.htm) story points out that the company has run afoul of the law in the act of defending some of the lawsuits against it, for example:

> [@](#):
>
> Plaintiffs’ lawyers frequently complain that Wal-Mart makes it difficult for them to examine company papers that the lawyers are entitled to see. In 1999, a judge in Beaumont, Texas, threatened to fine Wal-Mart $18 million for withholding an internal study of parking-lot security sought by a woman who was abducted from a Wal-Mart lot and raped. Texas Judge James Mehaffy accused Wal-Mart of “thwarting, obfuscating and obstructing” court procedure.

And this [South Florida Business Journal](http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2003/06/23/newscolumn1.html) article makes a similar point, saying that:

> [@](#):
>
> judges nationwide have penalized the company more than 130 times in 40,000 cases in the last decade for discovery abuses (usually refusing to burp up requested documents). It’s extremely rare for judges to sanction lawyers. Wal-Mart’s track record signals a dangerous pattern.

And, moving beyond issues of general worker dissatisfaction and defiance of court orders to produce documents, Wal-Mart has also been found guilty of violating the law in some lawsuits. For example, the South Florida Business Journal article quoted above also points out:

> [@](#):
>
> In an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission disability case, a U.S. District Court in Tucson ordered Wal-Mart to pay $750,200 in contempt fines for refusing to comply with a settlement, which required it craft training materials for hearing-impaired workers and institute disability training for managers.
> 
> Since 1994, the EEOC has filed at least 17 disability discrimination suits, claiming the mega-retailer violated the Americans with Disabilities Act.
> 
> Last January, in a consent decree, the EEOC compelled Wal-Mart to pay $6.8 million for violating the ADA when it demanded that applicants disclose disability-related information between 1994-1998.

This [CBS](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/20/national/main533818.shtml) article discusses a recent suit in which:

> [@](#):
>
> Wal-Mart, the world’s largest retailer, forced employees in Oregon to work unpaid overtime between 1994 and 1999, a federal jury found Thursday in the first of dozens of such lawsuits across the country to come to trial.
> 
> \<snip\>
> 
> The lawsuit was filed by Carolyn Thiebes and Betty Alderson, who worked in managerial positions at Wal-Mart stores in the Salem area.
> 
> The lawsuit claimed managers got employees to work off the clock by asking them to clean up the store after they had clocked out and by deleting hours from time records.
> 
> It also said Wal-Mart reprimanded employees who claimed overtime. Workers felt forced to work after clocking out because managers assigned them more work than they could complete in a regular shift, the plaintiffs said.
> 
> Wal-Mart conceded during opening arguments Tuesday that some off-the-clock work occurred but said company policy expressly prohibited it.

The story is taken up by this [Chicago Legal Network](http://www.chicagolegalnet.com/Walmart_Unpaid_Work.htm) article takes up the story and discusses the main plaintiff in the case:

> [@](#):
>
> Ms. Thiebes testified that several Wal-Mart employees had formed what she called the “Over 40 Club,” in which members worked more than 40 hours a week and then asked managers to subtract hours from their time cards so the cards showed that the employees only worked 40 hours. She also testified that Wal-Mart was so averse to paying overtime that her bosses sometimes asked her to use her computer to erase hours from employee’s time records to help hold down costs, especially overtime costs. Federal law required that workers be paid time-and-a-half for all hours over 40.

The same article also says:

> [@](#):
>
> In a class action lawsuit in Colorado, Wal-Mart reportedly paid $50 million two years ago to settle a case involving 69,000 workers in that state. In another case, it agreed to pay $5,900,000 to settle a case covering 120 workers at one Store, in Gallup NM.

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**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/46 "2003-09-01T19:44:14Z")

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[http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/w/\_walmart/00000ad9.htm](http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/w/_walmart/00000ad9.htm)

> **[Newsmax.com - Breaking news from around the globe](https://www.newsmax.com)**
>
> Newsmax.com reports today’s news headlines, live news stream, news videos from Americans and global readers
> seeking the latest in current events, politics, U.S., world news, health, finance, and more.

> **[Newsmax.com - Breaking news from around the globe](https://www.newsmax.com)**
>
> Newsmax.com reports today’s news headlines, live news stream, news videos from Americans and global readers
> seeking the latest in current events, politics, U.S., world news, health, finance, and more.

> **[Newsmax.com - Breaking news from around the globe](https://www.newsmax.com)**
>
> Newsmax.com reports today’s news headlines, live news stream, news videos from Americans and global readers
> seeking the latest in current events, politics, U.S., world news, health, finance, and more.

Over 50% of Walmart merchandise is made in China. China’s slave labor factories are well documented but it’s almost impossible to tell what imports are made by slaves and what aren’t. There is no question that at least some of Walmart’s (and K-Mart’s) merchandise is made by slaves but those companies will not disclose information about their factories in China.

American companies profit from Chinese sweatshops. Is that really news to you people? Have you heard about Nike? How about diamonds?

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**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/47 "2003-09-01T20:19:25Z")

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I’ve heard of sweatshops, DtC. You said, and continue to say, slaves.

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**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/48 "2003-09-01T20:34:15Z")

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Come on, **Monty** , are you really going to quibble over sweatshops vs. slaves?

As a matter of fact China uses both and they’re quite secretive about which factories do which.

Would it make a difference to you personally to know whether a rake was made by slaves or by virtual slaves. What if you knew the rake was made a thirteen year old girl making 20 cents a day (and working 18 hours?) Is there any significant moral difference between that and true (unpaid) slave labor?

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**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/49 "2003-09-01T20:40:09Z")

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Lay off of DtC. It is humanly impossible to insult Wal-Mart more than they deserve. I think he’s letting them off rather easy. Only in a nation full of chuckleheads like this one could a cult-like, festering chasm of evil like WallyMart thrive.

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**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/50 "2003-09-01T20:44:41Z")

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I don’t agree with DtC all that often, but I’m with him 100% on this one.

And he’s put it so eloquently, too! I mean that. I love it. I’m going to have to remember how he phrased his condemnation of WalMart. It’s priceless.

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**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/51 "2003-09-01T20:51:25Z")

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Yes, DtC; I’m going to quibble. That’s because the term slave has a particular meaning.

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**Author:** ![7\_up\_yours](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/919ad9/32.png) [@7\_up\_yours](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7_up_yours)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/52 "2003-09-01T21:01:59Z")

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From the first link [http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/w/\_walmart/00000ad9.htm](http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/w/_walmart/00000ad9.htm), I some problems.

> [@](#):
>
> Wal-Mart refuses to release even the names and addresses of these factories to the American people.

If they refuse the names and addresses to you, how are you _so sure_ it’s slave labour?

> [@](#):
>
> workers in China being paid 3 cents an hour in factories producing goods for export to Wal-Mart

Has this person actually seen a pay stub or is this one of those “Well, everyone knows… yada yada yada” statements?

Found at the bottom of the page as the disclaimer:

> [@](#):
>
> TCS is not affiliated in any way with the companies listed as Complaint Stations wherein complaints are filed. We are not responsible for content or any information posted to these sites

And I also checked out the main page [http://www.thecomplaintstation.com](http://www.thecomplaintstation.com).

> [@](#):
>
> You can complain about issues related to companies products, services, medicine, employment, get rich quick scams, diets or pills that don’t work or cause side effects, any issue you can think of, the list is endless… You may post as yourself and leave an email address for others to contact you or **post anonymously!**

(Bolding mine)

By that, I see it pretty much like the Pit here. You can rant and rave all you want without having any cites or proof that this stuff is true. All you need is where your personal experience and/or biased opinions.

Just because it’s on a website does not make it fact.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*
> 
> Over 50% of Walmart merchandise is made in China.

As with a lot of other companies. Do some “field research” yourself. Head out to the mall and look in several stores. Over 50% of their merchandise is made in China. So what?

> [@](#):
>
> China’s slave labor factories are well documented but it’s almost impossible to tell what imports are made by slaves and what aren’t.

So what are you saying exactly? Boycott “Made in China” products? No sarcasm here (seriously). What are you trying to say?

> [@](#):
>
> American companies profit from Chinese sweatshops. Is that really news to you people?

No, not news. I remember having a debate about this in grade 7 and that was quite a few years ago. But did you know that not all sweatshops are located in China? There are sweatshops in India, Korea, Thailand, Hong Kong, and many other places outside of Asia. I hope it doesn’t come as a surprise to you, but there ARE sweatshops in the States. There are sweatshops in Mexico. There are sweatshops in Cuba. There are sweatshops all over the world. What I’m trying to say is there are sweatshops all over the world. Just because it comes from China does not automatically mean it’s sweatshop made, and to single China out just because they produce more products than any other country is just plain ignorance.

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**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/53 "2003-09-01T21:09:05Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> So what are you saying exactly? Boycott “Made in China” products? No sarcasm here (seriously). What are you trying to say?

Yes…and especially boycott Wal-Mart.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/54 "2003-09-01T21:12:18Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Monty \*  
> \*\*Yes, DtC; I’m going to quibble. That’s because the term slave has a particular meaning. \*\*

> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Despite a putative ban on the importation into the U.S. of goods made with forced labor, the Customs Service has documented that Communist China’s notorious “reform through labor” Laogai prison camps continue to export goods to the United States. H.R. 2195 is designed to keep slave labor products out of the U.S., authorizing needed funding for genuine enforcement of the ban on slave-labor products. The legislation also calls upon the President to strengthen international agreements to improve monitoring of slave-labor imports.

\*\*

[http://policy.house.gov/html/china\_humanr.html](http://policy.house.gov/html/china_humanr.html)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![7\_up\_yours](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/919ad9/32.png) [@7\_up\_yours](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7_up_yours)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/55 "2003-09-01T21:15:58Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*  
> \*\*Yes…and especially boycott Wal-Mart. \*\*

So, you’re telling me that if I took a look around your room, I would not find any items labeled **Made in China**?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/56 "2003-09-01T21:21:29Z")

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Truth Seeker: That’s in reference to prisoners, is it not?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/57 "2003-09-01T22:42:20Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Monty \*  
> \*\*Truth Seeker: That’s in reference to prisoners, is it not? \*\*

Prisoners != criminals.

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**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/58 "2003-09-01T22:44:07Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by 7 up yours \*  
> \*\*So, you’re telling me that if I took a look around your room, I would not find any items labeled **Made in China**? \*\*

Not if _I_ bought it. My wife is a different story.

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**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/59 "2003-09-01T22:46:37Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Truth Seeker: That’s in reference to prisoners, is it not?

\*\*

> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Beijing: Local officials have opened a window on forced labour practices by conceding that 39 miners trapped since Friday in a flooded coal shaft and feared dead were convicts working in a prison-run mine.
> 
> Chinese news reports on the accident - one of a continuing epidemic of mine disasters - have not mentioned that the victims were convicts, and the Government regularly denies the existence of forced labour.
> 
> But officials in the south-western province of Sichuan told Reuters on Monday the now-flooded mine was operated by a prison near the town of Yibin and that the trapped miners were all “convicted criminals”.

\*\*  
How prosaic. They actually send them to the mines.

[http://old.smh.com.au/news/0105/23/world/world10.html](http://old.smh.com.au/news/0105/23/world/world10.html)

> [@](#):
>
> \*\*“Re-education through labour” is one form of administrative detention. It allows the police and other authorities to jail opponents without having to
> 
> justify their detention before a court of law. It is widely used to detain and silence political dissidents in China. At any one time more than 100,000 people are detained in labour camps undergoing “re-education”.
> 
> “Re-education through labour” is a punishment imposed without charge or trial by committees made up of representatives of the police and local government bodies. They may impose sentences of up to three years, renewable for up to one year.
> 
> An appeal procedure was introduced in 1990, but it is lengthy, cumbersome and does not provide real redress. No political cases have ever been overturned on appeal, even when the grounds for detention were shown to be based on false information.
> 
> Inmates in “re-education through labour” camps often face harsh conditions, long hours of forced labour and ill-treatment at the hands of guards and other inmates.

\*\*  
[http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/china/china96/zhou.htm](http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/china/china96/zhou.htm)

Quack, quack, waddle, waddle.

The people sent off to the Soviet Gulag were “prisoners” as well.

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**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cashiers-arent-allowed-to-count-their-tills-anymore-because-what/198763/60 "2003-09-01T23:06:04Z")

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Thanks for the snide-ass remark, "Truth"Seeker. Next time, I’ll ask for Fucked Up Jackass Comments instead of merely asking for clarification.

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