# Casino Etiquette Questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 2, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-etiquette-questions/534758 "2010-04-02T18:40:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 2\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-etiquette-questions/534758/41 "2010-04-06T09:02:46Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Do you have anything factual to offer that supports your opinion? > > Let us take for example a player who consistently hits 16 when the dealer is showing a 5. Can you explain mathematically how that will not impact the play of the rest of the table? The card you need to make your hand is just as likely to be the card 2nd from the top as the card 1st from the top. The chance that a bad player takes “your” card is offset by the fact that he might have gotten rid of the card that busts you, leaving a better card for you to receive. A better real life example; If I deal you two cards, one face up, and one face down, and the face up card is a 10, what are the chances you hit 21? (4 in 51, because there are 4 aces in the deck, with 51 cards remaining). If I deal you ONE face up 10 to you, and discard fifty cards, and then deal the final remaining card to you face down, what are the chances you hit 21? (still 4 in 51, because the ace is just as likely to be on the bottom as it is to be on the top). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-etiquette-questions/534758/42 "2010-04-06T09:39:33Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Which bet in a casino is something other than a “sucker bet”? Do you define “sucker’s bet” as any bet on which you lose money _on average_? If so, essentially all insurance policies would qualify as “sucker bets”! :dubious: In casinos some bets lose 5%, 10% or even 30% on average; those are called “sucker bets” to contrast with bets that lose 2% or less on average. This expected loss is called the “vigorish.” As **notfrommensa** implies, Pass, Come, Do Not Pass, and Do Not Come at the craps table offer you excellent chance, if you take the associated “Odds” sidebets. (The combined bets, e.g. Pass+Odds, have positive, but very small, vigorish.) Baccarat and Blackjack also offer small vigorish. Card-counting at blackjack, and perhaps computer-clocking at roulette, can even lead to negative vigorish! As discussed in [another recent thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=549245), high payoffs reduce the effect of vigorish, and roulette isn’t such a bad game, _if you never bet on more than one number at a time_. (For those unsure whether Septimus or Little Nemo “won” the debate in that thread, you can [review the response when I referred the matter to a mathematics forum](http://groups.google.com/group/alt.math.recreational/browse_thread/thread/26d31ebce9d8937d/262e169c901aa7c1?hl=en).) If you want the thrill of casino action, possibility of winning $1000 or so, but little investment, your best bet might be Keno!! The vigorish looks very bad, but as explained in last paragraph, the high-payoffs make the vigorish less of a problem. Most important (for limiting your losses) is that the game is slow moving. A $1 ticket can buy you a few minutes of thrill! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-etiquette-questions/534758.md?page=2)