# Casino Royale thread (open spoilers after p 4) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 17, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889 "2006-11-17T21:22:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![beergeek279](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@beergeek279](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beergeek279)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/261 "2006-12-02T20:37:28Z")
[QUOTE=Mayo Speaks!] And speaking of the poker, did anyone else notice that Bond never bluffed? He gave Vesper that speech about bluffing, and then never did it. [/QUOTE] I’d consider his final 5-7s to be quite a bluff until the straight flush fell (personally, I had him on the quad 6’s, but I suppose it wouldn’t be a Bond movie if he didn’t have the nuts), plus consider how many hands we didn’t see, so who’s to say he didn’t? Hold’em seemed like a more realistic game for Bond to dominate…after all, how many "neuf"s can someone realistically turn over in bacarrat? As a big Bond fan, I really did enjoy the reboot aspect and the molding of 007 on-screen. While I enjoyed the cartoonish aspect of women and gadgets in the previous films, removing them made the movie at least somewhat realistic, and while I’d love to see gadgets and Q Branch back, hopefully they’ll be introduced in a way that won’t be a _deus ex machina_ as they’d become as of late. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/262 "2006-12-02T21:00:37Z")
[QUOTE=mr. jp] Bad points: Craig was more naked and seminaked than all the female characters put together. [/QUOTE] How was this a bad point, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/263 "2006-12-02T21:07:33Z")
[QUOTE=alice\_in\_wonderland] How was this a bad point, exactly? [/QUOTE] It’s kind of threatening to the 99.994% of the male gender who could never look like that even if we worked out in the gym for 4 hours a day. But if it makes Bond movies into a legimate “date movie” then I guess there’s a tradeoff. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/264 "2006-12-02T21:12:15Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] It’s kind of threatening to the 99.994% of the male gender who could never look like that even if we worked out in the gym for 4 hours a day. [/QUOTE] I, on the other hand, strongly resemble [Hoagy Carmichael.](http://www.peermusic.com/images/hoagy4.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/265 "2006-12-02T21:20:35Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] I, on the other hand, strongly resemble [Hoagy Carmichael.](http://www.peermusic.com/images/hoagy4.jpg) [/QUOTE] Good thing Fleming didn’t give his hero a moniker like that. “Carmichael, Hoagy Carmichael” just doesn’t readily roll off the tongue. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/266 "2006-12-02T21:27:06Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] “Carmichael, Hoagy Carmichael” just doesn’t readily roll off the tongue. [/QUOTE] Well, yeah, but think what Q could do with a piano that unfolded into an attack helicopter. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/267 "2006-12-02T23:27:29Z")
On further reflection, this Bond is _too_ good at what he does to accurately reflect the character at what is supposedly the beginning of his 00 career. He’s pretty casual about playing games with M (something even the flippant Roger Moore hesitated to - saving his horseplay for Q) and the whole hotel check-in thing (“He already knows who I am”) doesn’t work because supposedly Bond is still a relative nobody; a novice 00. Who would know or care who he was? This is a bit conflated with an element from the novel _From Russia with Love_, in which Bond has to travel openly to Istanbul to make contact with a Russian cipher clerk. In the novel _Casino Royale_, there was no consideration of trying to “recruit” Le Chiffre, just keep him from recovering the money he’d misinvested on behalf of his employers. Personally, I kinda wonder why they don’t just kidnap him, hold him for a week or two until his finances are well and truly screwed beyond repair and say “Okay, you can join our witness protection or we’ll just drop you off at noon under the Eiffel Tower and let you take your chances.” Novel-Bond’s is indeed blown (how is unclear, though Vesper may have had a hand in it - Mathis is a recurring novel character and his loyalties are never in doubt) and he survives a bomb attack (nowhere near an airport, though). Novel-Bond isn’t a show-off. Good points from the novels, though: Bond likes nailing married women, being something of a cad who wants to avoid emotional entanglements. He had considered resigning at the end of the novel _Casino Royale_, but this was because of this epiphany he’d had about the futility of trying to be a hero while having his mommy-daddy button repeatedly rung, and not because Vesper was making him all squooshy inside. “The bitch is dead now” was the final line of the novel, and the movie should have ended there as well, sparing us M’s “she really loved you” post-hoc analysis. Bond’s attitude toward women in the novel is the same as his attitude toward luck - something to be softly wooed or savagely ravaged, not pandered to or pursued. This is what was supposed to (eventually) make Tracy Draco all the more extraordinary - the first woman Bond actually falls for. Anyway, the big significance of the novel’s baccarat game is that Bond does get wiped out and has a rough couple of moments when he gets an envelope from Felix containing a “Marshall Plan” 32,000 Francs (there had been a recent currency revision and the amount is alternately referred to as 32 million Francs. Bond like reporting his expenses in the modern thousands but personally liked thinking of himself as a millionaire, though the overall value was the same). When he makes the huge bet, there’s a whole scene where one of Le Chiffre’s henchmen slips in behind Bond and, in the crowded room, presses a trick gun against his back and whispers a threat to blow his spine out unless Bond withdraws it. I can see why this was unfilmable, since having people crowded around a poker table wouldn’t fly. The digitalis poisoning and recovery is not quite good enough as a replacement, though. Bond wins that hand (with a nine) and a follow-up hand, taking Le Chiffre’s remaining 10,000 Francs. Minor note; with the screaming and shooting and such when the black guys show up to threaten Le Chiffre and get into a brawl with Bond, were _all_ the guests out or asleep? ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/268 "2006-12-02T23:52:32Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] It’s kind of threatening to the 99.994% of the male gender who could never look like that even if we worked out in the gym for 4 hours a day. [/QUOTE] Well, that’s what all females have to put up with every single day. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/269 "2006-12-03T03:33:03Z")
[QUOTE=cactus waltz] Well, that’s what all females have to put up with every single day. [/QUOTE] Well yeah, but having your ego punctured doesn’t prevent your reproductive organs from functioning. 😉 Stranger ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/270 "2006-12-03T03:44:33Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] Well yeah, but having your ego punctured doesn’t prevent your reproductive organs from functioning. 😉 [/QUOTE] Nor mine. It’s not like Mrs. Plant can call Craig up and ask him to take her to the movies. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![VampyChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5daacb/32.png) [@VampyChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VampyChick)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/271 "2006-12-03T03:47:40Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] and the whole hotel check-in thing (“He already knows who I am”) doesn’t work because supposedly Bond is still a relative nobody; a novice 00. Who would know or care who he was? [/QUOTE] I was under the impression he did that not because of his ego, but because he had screwed up by telling Solange his name. After she was tortured to death for information, he had to assume Le Chiffre knew it, too. Although unless Le Chiffre also had, say, security camera footage of him with Solange, he probably still could have slipped under the radar. Maybe he wanted Le Chiffre to know he was coming after him? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/272 "2006-12-03T03:58:52Z")
[QUOTE=VampyChick] Maybe he wanted Le Chiffre to know he was coming after him? [/QUOTE] For what it’s worth, from the novel: …had signed the register ‘James Bond, Port Maria, Jamaica.’ M. had expressed no interest in his cover. ‘Once you start to make a set at Le Chiffre at the tables you’ll have had it,’ he said. ‘But wear a cover that will stick with the general public.’ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/273 "2006-12-03T04:37:50Z")
Just saw it for the second time. Loved it all over again. But I wondered: - What happened to Bond’s fellow agent, who tipped off the runner in Madagascar by having his hand to his ear? Looks like he fell into the betting pit with the cobra and the mongoose, firing a shot that cleared the vicinity, but then we never see him again. Maybe the cobra bit him…? - What tipped off Bond to Mathis’s treachery? After he wins big, he and Vesper go for a late supper in the empty restaurant. She gets a phone calls from Mathis (or so she says) and says goodnight. He takes another sip of his drink, then says “Mathis!” as if he’s had some great revelation, and runs outside just in time to see Vesper grabbed and put in the car. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/274 "2006-12-03T05:36:42Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] It’s kind of threatening to the 99.994% of the male gender who could never look like that even if we worked out in the gym for 4 hours a day. But if it makes Bond movies into a legimate “date movie” then I guess there’s a tradeoff. Stranger [/QUOTE] Actually, if 99.994% of the male gender worked out in the gym for 4 hours/day they would in fact look like that. Better even. Okay, if you don’t have the drop-dead blue eyes, not much you can do about that. Just saw it tonight. Very fun. It was crazy over the top fun in a James Bond way without the space shuttles and evil overlords threatening to destroy the world which is of course, just silly. Damn, Daniel Crag looks good. Ooh, those startlingly crystal blue eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/275 "2006-12-03T06:12:04Z")
Well, it does take eating right, too. But if you’re going to say that a couple gym hours every day would do the trick, then we could say that about women, too. As a trainer once told me, everyone’s muscles are attached like that under the fat. The trick is to build the muscles and lose the fat, and yes, mostly even for the women, too. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/276 "2006-12-03T13:42:41Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Actually, if 99.994% of the male gender worked out in the gym for 4 hours/day they would in fact look like that. Better even. [/QUOTE] Huh? You are discounting the importance of the general bone structure. If one is initally smallish built, you can still work out and get good-looking, but you cannot achieve that broad-chested / broad-shouldered look. On top of that there are many problems that many males have to a small degree, such as hollow chest, baldness, gynecomastia, too wide hips, shortness, etc. An interesting question is how many women could look like Chiffres girl compared to how many men could look like Craig. I think it’s easier for a woman, if she has the potential, since it’s probably mostly loosing weight. OTOH, many women might have too wide hips. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/277 "2006-12-03T18:15:22Z")
Regarding Craig being semi-nude too much: [Daniel Craig Is Open To A Gay Scene in Next James Bond Film](http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2006/11/29/daniel_craig_is_open_to_a_gay_scene_in_n/) If they do this, of course, the James Bond series is dead to me. ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/278 "2006-12-03T19:01:09Z")
My wife and I saw it last night, and we are of the camp that enjoyed it tremendously. I think she’d leave me in a heartbeat for Mr. Craig. I was pleasantly surprised to see that Brutus redeems himself after his shocking betrayal of Julius Ceasar. I did not believe he’d be able to get a position of public trust. (A Rome reference regarding Tobias Menzies playing Villiers.) ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/279 "2006-12-03T19:08:32Z")
[QUOTE=mr. jp] Huh? You are discounting the importance of the general bone structure. If one is initally smallish built, you can still work out and get good-looking, but you cannot achieve that broad-chested / broad-shouldered look. On top of that there are many problems that many males have to a small degree, such as hollow chest, baldness, gynecomastia, too wide hips, shortness, etc. [/QUOTE] If what you want is to be Daniel Craig there’s not much anyone can do for you. Daniel Craig himself probably doesn’t even look like Daniel Craig as portrayed in _Casino Royale_ all the time. But if you were born with all the right parts working normally and we’re seriously talking about four hours a day spent working on your body and assuming you’re carefully controlling your diet as well then yes, you can get Daniel Craig’s proportions relative to your height. [QUOTE=mr. jp] Regarding Craig being semi-nude too much: Daniel Craig Is Open To A Gay Scene in Next James Bond Film If they do this, of course, the James Bond series is dead to me. [/QUOTE] I doubt it would happen but I think it’s a great idea. Shouldn’t a souless super agent be prepared to charm and seduce _anyone_ he needs to, adopt any persona required? **brownie55** , I was also pleased to see Tobias Menzies. It took me a while to remember where I knew him from. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/280 "2006-12-03T20:38:08Z")
If we could wrap wire around Fleming’s corpse and put magnets around his grave, we would be able to generate free electricity. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889.md?page=15)