# Casino Royale thread (open spoilers after p 4) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 17, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889 "2006-11-17T21:22:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![cranston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cranston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cranston)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/61 "2006-11-20T14:49:19Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley] Cranston, I don’t think we were watching the same movie. This description would be a disappointing thing to have happened, but it did not happen like that at all. In fact, I thought it was one of the coolest parts of the movie **because** it was the opposite of how you describe it. The villain was obviously much faster and more agile than Bond, and did things that Bond could not hope to do. The cool part was how the villain would do something requiring incredible agility and leave Bond behind, but then Bond would do something different requiring brute strength to overcome the same obstacle in a different way. The best example of this was when the villain jumped up, swung on a pipe, and squeezed through an opening in a wall near the ceiling. Bond could never duplicate that feat, so he just crashes through the wall. I thought it was great the way he thought quickly enough to improvise solutions to obstacles when he could match the villain in ability. [/QUOTE] No, I don;t think we were watching the same movie at all. [spoiler] The free jumping episode broke every canon of cinematographic progression. Firstly, the villain swanned through it FIRST. in other words, all the thrills and spills to which we were exposed were initiated and completed by him before Bond did them again. Secondly the villain was not set up to be some kind of free-jumping genius (in which case we could have at least admired Bond for keeping up with him). He was just a tramp with a bad face watching a street circus. Bond, for god’s sake, is supposed to he a trained athlete even if he is a new 00 agent. Catching up with the villain should have been a cakewalk. Thirdly Bond is never in peril (not until he gets to the embassy) but the villain is. But we’re supposed to be identifying, aren’t we?, with the hero. Fourthly, there is no suspense because it’s not Bond being chased. The film makers haven’t established any macguffin to explain why it’s a serious matter if Bond catches him or not. These are basic, stupid film-making mistakes. If you want examples of an Bond chase on foot which is real and exciting but also properly filmed and directed so that it is in fact an intensifying crescendo towards a great climax - check out Bond being pursued through a Jamaican carnical in Thunderball… …or if you want a more mdoern chase sequence that is even more gritty, real and exciting then refer to Matt Damon’s escape from the US embassy in Zurich in the first Bourne film. Now that’s cinema! That the day would arrive when i would be touting that chimp-faced chump over Bond is a sad one indeed. [/spoiler]. ---
**Author:** ![cranston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cranston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cranston)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/62 "2006-11-20T14:52:34Z")
[QUOTE=Grossbottom] Yes. Best Bond since Connery. The film was definitely ten minutes too long though. [/QUOTE] I remember there was the same kijd of unanimity amongst the fanbois when Dalton took over the franchise. I thought he was crap; noone else did. History triumphantly vindicated me. 🆒 Let’s see how the revenues look for CR next weekend rather than the one we’ve just left. They will indicate how this story is going to end. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/63 "2006-11-20T14:56:30Z")
I thought the first chase scene was un-fucking-believable. In fact, the aerial scenes actually made me a little sick to my stomach. I thought it was beautifully rendered. I think you just hated this film; which is fine, but don’t expect the rest of us to hate it just because you did. ---
**Author:** ![cranston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cranston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cranston)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/64 "2006-11-20T15:02:32Z")
[QUOTE=light strand] I thought the first chase scene was un-fucking-believable. In fact, the aerial scenes actually made me a little sick to my stomach. I thought it was beautifully rendered. I think you just hated this film; which is fine, but don’t expect the rest of us to hate it just because you did. [/QUOTE] Sweetheart, unclench your sphincter - this is all a laugh, anway. I don’t expect to convince any of you to hate it at all if you did love it. But, with some honourable exceptions, most of you _aren’t_ explaining why tyou love it so except for some vague reference to Craig jumping through a building site and his rockhard, kissable nipples. Believe me, I wanted to love this film. But on its own terms it was badly made rubbish. If you want a good version of Casino Royale, go and see the Bourne Identity which, believe me, I wanted to hate. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/65 "2006-11-20T15:08:49Z")
[QUOTE=cranston] Sweetheart, unclench your sphincter - this is all a laugh, anway. I don’t expect to convince any of you to hate it at all if you did love it. But, with some honourable exceptions, most of you _aren’t_ explaining why tyou love it so except for some vague reference to Craig jumping through a building site and his rockhard, kissable nipples. Believe me, I wanted to love this film. But on its own terms it was badly made rubbish. If you want a good version of Casino Royale, go and see the Bourne Identity which, believe me, I wanted to hate. [/QUOTE] No one seems upset about this but you. ---
**Author:** ![cranston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cranston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cranston)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/66 "2006-11-20T15:15:39Z")
[QUOTE=light strand] No one seems upset about this but you. [/QUOTE] Oh, well if I seemed upset, rather than simply sounding off about a movie franchise, and caused you worry, then naturally I apologise. Let’s hope Bond 22 is better. In the meantime, go and see Snatch, The Transporter, the Man Inside and 16 Blocks if you really are interested in exciting but grittily realistic movies. No charge for this list. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/67 "2006-11-20T15:20:59Z")
[QUOTE=cranston] Oh, well if I seemed upset, rather than simply sounding off about a movie franchise, and caused you worry, then naturally I apologise. Let’s hope Bond 22 is better. In the meantime, go and see Snatch, The Transporter, the Man Inside and 16 Blocks if you really are interested in exciting but grittily realistic movies. No charge for this list. [/QUOTE] I’ve seen 16 Blocks, and hated it. Saw Snatch, it was OK, but I though Brad Pitt was badly cast and barely watchable. So no thank you. I don’t really trust your judgment. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/68 "2006-11-20T15:55:07Z")
[QUOTE=cranston] I remember there was the same kijd of unanimity amongst the fanbois when Dalton took over the franchise. I thought he was crap; noone else did. History triumphantly vindicated me. 🆒 [/QUOTE] Actually, I didn’t care for Dalton one bit, I thought _The Living Daylights_ (IIRC, his first foray as Bond) was disjointed and incoherent. Until I heard an interview with the screenwriters saying that they were toning down the humor in the film, I was _firmly_ in the camp that this film was going to suck, and I still wouldn’t have been surprised if it had turned out to be bad. I also was among those who thought that Clive Owen should have been Bond. Not once during the film did I think, “Gee, I wish Clive Owen was Bond and not this guy.” ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/69 "2006-11-20T15:58:22Z")
[QUOTE=cranston] Oh, well if I seemed upset, rather than simply sounding off about a movie franchise, and caused you worry, then naturally I apologise. Let’s hope Bond 22 is better. In the meantime, go and see Snatch, The Transporter, the \*\*Man Inside \*\* and 16 Blocks if you really are interested in exciting but grittily realistic movies. No charge for this list. [/QUOTE] That’s Inside Man. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/70 "2006-11-20T16:05:43Z")
I don’t like grittily realistic movies. I like movies that pull me in and that I can watch mindlessly for a couple of hours and enjoy myself. What’s wrong with enjoying a film because of rockhard, kissable nipples? Out of curiosity, **cranston** , are you a film major? ---
**Author:** ![cranston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cranston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cranston)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/71 "2006-11-20T16:31:22Z")
[QUOTE=light strand] I’ve seen 16 Blocks, and hated it. Saw Snatch, it was OK, but I though Brad Pitt was badly cast and barely watchable. So no thank you. I don’t really trust your judgment. [/QUOTE] Sure, sweets. ---
**Author:** ![cranston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cranston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cranston)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/72 "2006-11-20T16:32:50Z")
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee] I don’t like grittily realistic movies. I like movies that pull me in and that I can watch mindlessly for a couple of hours and enjoy myself. What’s wrong with enjoying a film because of rockhard, kissable nipples? Out of curiosity, **cranston** , are you a film major? [/QUOTE] No, I’m an advertising copywriter with a degree in Law. Does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/73 "2006-11-20T16:38:27Z")
[QUOTE=cranston] No, I’m an advertising copywriter with a degree in Law. Does it matter? [/QUOTE] Really? Huh? Go fiure. ---
**Author:** ![cranston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cranston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cranston)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/74 "2006-11-20T16:52:10Z")
[QUOTE=light strand] Really? Huh? Go fiure. [/QUOTE] Nice comeback. Professional writer? ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/75 "2006-11-20T16:59:59Z")
Nope. Just surprised. Your passion, and derision for those who disagree is usually found in the artist and film-maker, not in someone in your profession. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/76 "2006-11-20T17:12:23Z")
I liked this movie, but I had a problem with the idea that somebody would get promoted to 00 status without having killed anybody. You’d think that’d be line one on the job requirements list… ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/77 "2006-11-20T17:13:38Z")
[QUOTE=cranston] No, I’m an advertising copywriter with a degree in Law. Does it matter? [/QUOTE] Presumably if your degree in Law didn’t matter you wouldn’t mention it. Could you name the “canons of cinematographic progression” please? I didn’t realise one of them was “The protagonist must be chased, never be the one who is chasing.” (if I’ve read what you had in the spoiler box correctly). ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/78 "2006-11-20T17:16:46Z")
[QUOTE=Ethilrist] I liked this movie, but I had a problem with the idea that somebody would get promoted to 00 status without having killed anybody. You’d think that’d be line one on the job requirements list… [/QUOTE] I thought the whole point of the opening sequence was showing him kill the two people that earned his promotion to 00? Is that not what the 00 stands for? Two kills? ---
**Author:** ![cranston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cranston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cranston)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/79 "2006-11-20T17:23:48Z")
[QUOTE=Arch Trout] Presumably if your degree in Law didn’t matter you wouldn’t mention it. Could you name the “canons of cinematographic progression” please? I didn’t realise one of them was “The protagonist must be chased, never be the one who is chasing.” (if I’ve read what you had in the spoiler box correctly). [/QUOTE] I mentioned it, hon, because I was asked. Fair enough? No, I’m sorry you didn’t read what I had in the spoiler box correctly at all. I didn’t say ‘the protagonist must be chased’ never the chaser (or ‘one who is chasing’ as you express it so naturally). if that were the case, the Bond car chase in ‘Man With the Golden Gun’ would be crap wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889/80 "2006-11-20T17:44:36Z")
Count me with the folks who loved this film. It drew me in & succeeded as entertainment. As far as I’m concerned Daniel Craig IS James Bond. He’s a great example of a man whose face is not classically handsome, but, due to charisma, screen presence, talent or whatever - I simply couldn’t take my eyes off him when he was on screen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casino-royale-thread-open-spoilers-after-p-4/380889.md?page=5)