# Cassini: Chance for life on Titan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cassini-chance-for-life-on-titan/253019 "2004-07-01T06:00:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cassini-chance-for-life-on-titan/253019/41 "2005-01-23T14:39:00Z")
Methane and water form complexes called [clathrates](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate). The earthly versions of these are more water than methane, but god only knows what odd versions form under Titanian conditions. In a sea of methane, they _might_ serve to mobilize water for chemical reactions, even at very low temperatures. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cassini-chance-for-life-on-titan/253019/42 "2005-01-23T15:22:21Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Europa is more interesting not only because the evidence of possible volcanic activity under it’s cracky ice-shell means that there could be plenty of spaces that are liquid and stay liquid. Unfortunately, the ice likely blocks out a lot of the UV rays and other such events that likely spurred things on on earth. There’s the alternative hypothesis that says that life here developed near thermal vents deep within our oceans, which is why Europa is so fascinating to me. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cassini-chance-for-life-on-titan/253019/43 "2005-01-23T18:14:15Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And how come the surface of Titan is yellow? Doesn’t that mean sulphur and vulcanism? Titan’s atmosphere is yellow, so it’s tough to say just how yellow the surface actually is. Yellow is very much the default color for organic reactions run amok, so it doesn’t necessarily signify the presence of sulfur. [Here’s a bit on what Huygens found in the atmosphere:](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:1SBCfIZ1EHQJ:www.astrobio.net/cgi-bin/h2p.cgi%3Fsid%3D1388%26ext%3D.pdf+yellow+%22in+titans+atmosphere%22&hl=en&client=firefox-a) > [@](#): > > Titans atmosphere is so cold, theres very little oxygen or oxygen-bearing compounds in there. All the compounds that have been detected are hydrocarbons - compounds containing carbon and hydrogen - or nitriles - compounds with carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen. But if this stuff rains out onto the surface, and it interacts with liquid water at any stage, you very quickly form a lot of oxygen-bearing compounds like amino acids. This has been done in the laboratory, and it only takes a few hours. " ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cassini-chance-for-life-on-titan/253019/44 "2005-01-23T20:01:30Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Methane and water form complexes called [clathrates](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate). Why involve water at all? If the organic chemicals are soluble in liquid methane, then surely no water is required? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cassini-chance-for-life-on-titan/253019/45 "2005-01-23T20:29:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Why involve water at all? Earthly bias. We know it works with water, so having water, or ice, on Titan allows us to speculate from a point that isn’t _completely_ unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cassini-chance-for-life-on-titan/253019/46 "2005-01-23T20:50:54Z")
> [@mstay](#): > > There’s the alternative hypothesis that says that life here developed near thermal vents deep within our oceans, which is why Europa is so fascinating to me. Within our oceans or even deep within our planetary crust. We’re finding bacteria almost everywhere, and it’s thought that it may well be that the near majority of bacteria, and hence ALL LIFE ON EARTH (measured whether in biomass or individuals) may be miles beneath the surface of the planet in hot vents and cracks, making our bias for doings on the surface very misleading indeed. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cassini-chance-for-life-on-titan/253019/47 "2005-01-23T21:37:03Z")
Regarding the methane for water substitution hypothesis: Could someone explain why Titan’s (average?) temperature being close to methane’s “triple point” is important? My impression is that it’s something to do with being able to find solid,liquid & airborne methane. I am also of the understanding that Earth’s average temp (15 C) is the triple point of water. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cassini-chance-for-life-on-titan/253019/48 "2005-01-23T23:30:02Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I am also of the understanding that Earth’s average temp (15 C) is the triple point of water. [Not quite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_point). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cassini-chance-for-life-on-titan/253019.md?page=2)