# Castro Absolves Obama of Fault For US Blockade **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442 "2015-04-11T19:02:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/1 "2015-04-11T19:02:20Z")
[Castro Absolves Obama of Fault For US Blockade](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/11/raul-castro-obama_n_7046540.html) > [@Associated Press via Huffpo](#): > > Castro, in a meandering, nearly hour-long speech to the Summit of the Americas, ran through an exhaustive history of perceived Cuban grievances against the U.S. dating back more than a century - a vivid display of how raw passions remain over American attempts to undermine Cuba’s government. > > Then, in an abrupt about face, he apologized for letting his emotions get the best of him. He said many U.S. presidents were at fault for that troubled history - but that Obama isn’t one of them. > > “I have told President Obama that I get very emotional talking about the revolution,” Castro said through a translator, noting that Obama wasn’t even born when the U.S. began sanctioning the island nation. “I apologize to him because President Obama had no responsibility for this.” > > In a remarkable vote of confidence from a Cuban leader, Castro added: “ **In my opinion, President Obama is an honest man**.” Questions for debate: What, if anything, does this do to the perception of Obama both and home and abroad? What will normalization of relations mean for both the US and Cuba? Is normalization of relations a better deal for the US or Cuba? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/2 "2015-04-11T19:04:31Z")
> [@](#): > > In a remarkable vote of confidence from a Cuban leader, Castro added: “In my opinion, President Obama is an honest man.” Well, that just _proves_ that Obama is a Commie who’s planning to ban prayer and make gay marriage mandatory. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/3 "2015-04-11T19:11:35Z")
Personally, I think this gives Obama another tick in the win column, which obviously means Republicans will call it the worst thing in the world since World War II. I think both countries will be better off economically as American-owned businesses are allowed to open in Cuba, and Cuba’s population is provided opportunities in Cuba that don’t exist now in the form of jobs and other benefits, such as to access to more and better goods and services. Ultimately, however, I think any normalization of relations will be better for the US than Cuba as Cuba provides near-virgin territory for US entrepreneurs and exploitation opportunities for larger US corporations. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/4 "2015-04-11T19:18:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Is normalization of relations a better deal for the US or Cuba? It’s a far better deal for Cuba, assuming it happens, than the US. We essentially get nothing major out of normalization of relations with Cuba except, perhaps, the chance to shift Cuba over time to becoming a better neighbor (and vice versa) and perhaps undermine, once and for all the Cuban Communist government in a similar way to how China’s has shifted at least wrt trade. This isn’t to say we shouldn’t do it, btw…I think this is an opportunity to make this shift, and that whatever tenuous benefits we got from or embargo are far in the past now and don’t really do more than hinder things at this point. To me, getting Cuba to normalize relations and start trading with the rest of the world is the best thing we could do to undermine their government and eventually bring them around to becoming a member in good standing with the world community. Cuba, however, will reap much more tangible rewards from such a deal as the US is naturally their best market for many of the goods they can provide, as well as a potential vacation destination if they get their act together and make it so. The potential for their economy is huge, as is the potential for the average standard of living of the Cuban people. The potential for their current communist government, however, isn’t nearly so rosy I don’t think. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/5 "2015-04-11T19:27:28Z")
> [@XT](#): > > The potential for their current communist government, however, isn’t nearly so rosy I don’t think. If China’s government can loosen things up and survive, so can Cuba’s. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/6 "2015-04-11T19:32:52Z")
Either Raul or the reporter misspoke. The U.S. has an **embargo** on Cuba. We have not had a **blockade** since the Missile Crisis. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/7 "2015-04-11T19:50:06Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > What, if anything, does this do to the perception of Obama both and home and abroad? Well, as per exactly what Castro said, Obama was skillful in being born after all the “bad stuff” happened. That’s quite an achievement! ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/8 "2015-04-11T20:04:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, as per exactly what Castro said, Obama was skillful in being born after all the “bad stuff” happened. That’s quite an achievement! Specifically, what does Obama taking steps to normalize relations between the US and Cuba do to perceptions of Obama at home and abroad? Of course Obama was born before this all happened. Who is saying otherwise? You seem to be saying that Obama is simply in the right place at the right time. Please correct me if I am mischaracterizing your position. I contend that a different Democratic president probably would not have taken the substantive steps Obama has in this matter, and that a Republican president definitely would not have. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/9 "2015-04-11T20:21:38Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Specifically, what does Obama taking steps to normalize relations between the US and Cuba do to perceptions of Obama at home and abroad? Is that actually what you want to debate, because that wasn’t in your OP. It won’t change perception at home-- everyone already has their perception pretty much fixed. It will most likely imp[rove his perception somewhat abroad, but not much. He’s still seen as more or less a typical trigger happy US president, overly eager to flex the US’s military muscle. > [@](#): > > Of course Obama was born before this all happened. Who is saying otherwise? You seem to be saying that Obama is simply in the right place at the right time. Please correct me if I am mischaracterizing your position. No problem. It’s not my position, it’s Castro’s. That’s what he said. The sensationalist headline that you copied as your thread title is pretty anti-climatic when you get to the substance-- Obama’s birth date. > [@](#): > > I contend that a different Democratic president probably would not have taken the substantive steps Obama has in this matter, and that a Republican president definitely would not have. Most likely true. THere are probably quite a few Democrats who would have wanted to, but none that would have a chance of getting elected president. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/10 "2015-04-11T20:27:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, as per exactly what Castro said, Obama was skillful in being born after all the “bad stuff” happened. That’s quite an achievement! No, there was no skill involved in when he was born. But there was certainly skill and leadership involved in spearheading the normalization of relations, the exact opposite of what most Republicans and the Cuban expat nutcases that they cater to have been doing for half a century, which had no effect other than the impoverishment of the Cuban population. > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > What, if anything, does this do to the perception of Obama both and home and abroad? For me, anyway, it reinforces my perception of someone who makes decisions based on reason rather than ideology or partisan pandering. > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > What will normalization of relations mean for both the US and Cuba? Depends on the specifics of the deal, but one expects that it will open up American markets to Cuban goods and open the Cuban tourist market to Americans, which, like the operation of any free market, benefits both sides of the transactions. What it will do for me personally is probably spoil and overcrowd the hitherto unspoiled Cuban tourist areas and increase the price of my favorite Cuban rum and cigars! But I support it anyway. 😛 > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Is normalization of relations a better deal for the US or Cuba? Not really a valid question since normal relations should be the default in the absence of persuasive and just reasons to do otherwise. The theoretical “best deal” for the US would be to invade Cuba and plunder all its resources. The best _ **fair** _ deal would be to remove artificial and in any case ineffective sanctions and let free markets prevail. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/11 "2015-04-11T20:31:39Z")
Obama: The Choice of Senile Totalitarians Since 2008! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/12 "2015-04-11T20:32:13Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Depends on the specifics of the deal, but one expects that it will open up American markets to Cuban goods . . Ooh! Florida Big Sugar won’t like **that!** ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/13 "2015-04-11T21:44:30Z")
First, what progress did Obama make on his own vs. Raul making changes? It seems to me that the progress with regard to Cuba has more to do with old Fidel being replaced by Raul than any moves the U.S. has made. Good for Obama for taking the opportunity but what skill was shown? Raul has been doing all kinds of reform since Fidel died. Note, this isn’t a slam against Obama. It just seems to me that this is more of a ‘crazy ass dictator dies and much less crazy brother takes over’ type thing than a triumph of skilled diplomacy. Of course I don’t know much about Cuba so I could be wrong. If I am, please enlighten me. Slee ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/14 "2015-04-11T21:47:55Z")
Point 1, Fidel Castro isn’t dead. Point 2, why does there have to be only one cause? Obama certainly took the initiative from the US side. Most Republicans are still adamantly against normalization. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/15 "2015-04-11T21:49:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ooh! Florida Big Sugar won’t like **that!** Neither would the many America farmers who grow sugar beets or corn. So Obama and the Democrats are risking losing some votes by this policy, with no guarantee that normalized relations with Cuba would gain them any other votes. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/16 "2015-04-11T22:06:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If China’s government can loosen things up and survive, so can Cuba’s. Im not so sure about this. The US will have much more potential influence over Cuba than it does over China. Sure, China has produced a model that Cuba can embrace. But successfully implementing that model is far from a given. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/17 "2015-04-11T22:33:44Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Good for Obama for taking the opportunity but what skill was shown? Moving towards rapprochement with Cuba did not take skill; it took guts. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/18 "2015-04-11T22:46:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Moving towards rapprochement with Cuba did not take skill; it took guts. Not really…both countries have been slowly dancing towards this for a while now. My personal feelings have always been that once Fidel is out of the picture it was inevitable we’d move this way, regardless. It’s just happening now that Obama is president, but my guess is we won’t really get to full normalization until the next president is in office and Fidel is safely under the ground. I guess we shall see, and personally, as I’ve said before, I’m all for it. I LOVE Cuban cigars, so bring those puppies on! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/19 "2015-04-11T23:04:13Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > What will normalization of relations mean for both the US and Cuba? > > Is normalization of relations a better deal for the US or Cuba? It’s probably a better deal for Cuba in the short term in that they’ll be able to turn cigars and sandy beaches into rapid development (if they’re any smart) but both would benefit in the long run, same as any trade partnership. Besides, really, the Cuban embargo still existing is pretty silly when the Cuban regime of today is no worse than that of, say, China. And they haven’t pointed Russian nukes at the US in, like, forever. It was the 60s, everybody experimented with crazy stuff once, come on ! Other than historical fuckery, is there any reason _not_ to normalize relations with Cuba ? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/20 "2015-04-11T23:10:44Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No, there was no skill involved in when he was born. But there was certainly skill and leadership involved in spearheading the normalization of relations, the exact opposite of what most Republicans and the Cuban expat nutcases that they cater to have been doing for half a century, which had no effect other than the impoverishment of the Cuban population. Agreed, and which is what I said later in that post. I give Obama a lot of credit for taking a bold move on Cuba. Not sure Hillary would have done the same, even if some of the other Democrats might have. I can’t see any Republican doing anything other “stay the course”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442.md?page=2)