# Castro Absolves Obama of Fault For US Blockade **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442 "2015-04-11T19:02:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/21 "2015-04-11T23:21:08Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Neither would the many America farmers who grow sugar beets or corn. > > So Obama and the Democrats are risking losing some votes by this policy, with no guarantee that normalized relations with Cuba would gain them any other votes. By “farmers,” of course, you mean “agribiz.” Maybe it will lose some votes – not that many. On the plus side, maybe once Cuban sugar starts flowing northward, the soft drink companies will reintroduce sodas made with cane sugar instead of corn syrup. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/22 "2015-04-11T23:23:27Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It’s probably a better deal for Cuba in the short term in that they’ll be able to turn cigars and sandy beaches into rapid development (if they’re any smart) but both would benefit in the long run, same as any trade partnership. Besides, really, the Cuban embargo still existing is pretty silly when the Cuban regime of today is no worse than that of, say, China. And they haven’t pointed Russian nukes at the US in, like, forever. It was the 60s, everybody experimented with crazy stuff once, come on ! > > Other than historical fuckery, is there any reason _not_ to normalize relations with Cuba ? [The Freeptards seem to think so.](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3277965/posts) But, even among them, I note a few dissenting voices. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/23 "2015-04-11T23:39:24Z")
So Cuba can return to how it was in the 1950’s when it was a promising industrial economy? Yay, let’s erase 60 years of shittery and praise Obama for it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/24 "2015-04-12T00:38:40Z")
I’m willing to bet if there were a president Romney in charge right now, or heaven forbid, the second term of McCain, there is no way on Earth we’d be easing down hostility with Cuba. So I’d say Obama deserves a little credit here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/25 "2015-04-12T00:51:20Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m willing to bet if there were a president Romney in charge right now, or heaven forbid, the second term of McCain, there is no way on Earth we’d be easing down hostility with Cuba. > > So I’d say Obama deserves a little credit here. And so do the voters. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/26 "2015-04-12T01:10:18Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m willing to bet if there were a president Romney in charge right now, or heaven forbid, the second term of McCain, there is no way on Earth we’d be easing down hostility with Cuba. > > So I’d say Obama deserves a little credit here. I think it would still be happening, but I’m willing to concede that they would most likely have taken a much harder line and might stretch out how long it takes to get to real normalized relations. But we normalized relations with Vietnam AND China, so I don’t see it as a huge stretch that we’d get there eventually…once Fidel shuffles off anyway. I want to see where this goes before I hand Obama credit. However, I’d be more than happy to give him all the props he could want if this goes somewhere and we make real progress towards normalization. Of course, that means he needs to do this with more than a few Republicans obstructing…and probably more than one or two Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/27 "2015-04-12T04:12:06Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I think it would still be happening, but I’m willing to concede that they would most likely have taken a much harder line and might stretch out how long it takes to get to real normalized relations. But we normalized relations with Vietnam AND China, so I don’t see it as a huge stretch that we’d get there eventually…once Fidel shuffles off anyway. > > I want to see where this goes before I hand Obama credit. However, I’d be more than happy to give him all the props he could want if this goes somewhere and we make real progress towards normalization. Of course, that means he needs to do this with more than a few Republicans obstructing…and probably more than one or two Democrats. I’ve thought for a long while that the Cuban embargo had become pointless and wasteful, especially after the Soviet Union stopped supporting them. If we can normalize relations with Vietnam and China, there’s no good reason we can’t do it with Cuba. And yes, Fidel getting out of the way probably helped things along quite a bit. The embargo and lack of relations were policies that outlived their reasons for existing, so I think Obama deserves credit for making things happen. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/28 "2015-04-12T04:25:28Z")
Speaking of China (at least, _someone_ was)… China [continues to push](http://www.npr.org/2015/04/09/398575535/u-s-intervention-in-the-caribbean-comes-on-chinas-heels) its influence in the Caribbean, while the US has ceded much of its post-Monroe Doctrine imperialism in the region. Normalizing relations with Cuba could serve to mitigate Chinese power in the region; the Cuban people are arguably more positively disposed to their closest neighbor than China. If a post-Castro Cuba could pull in economic tandem with the US, that would go a long way toward stymieing Chinese power in our backyard. Might be too little, too late, really. But I have to think that’s entering into the equation on some level. . ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/29 "2015-04-12T16:22:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m willing to bet if there were a president Romney in charge right now, or heaven forbid, the second term of McCain, there is no way on Earth we’d be easing down hostility with Cuba. You forget that McCain would have been guided by the consummate wisdom of Sarah Palin. One presumes that her policies would largely be premised on whether one can see Cuba from Florida, and would probably involve nukes. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/30 "2015-04-14T10:30:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Either Raul or the reporter misspoke. The U.S. has an **embargo** on Cuba. We have not had a **blockade** since the Missile Crisis. The Cubans call it a blockade. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/31 "2015-04-15T14:29:53Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The Cubans call it a blockade. That goes beyond “misspoke” into full on dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/32 "2015-04-15T15:14:09Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The Cubans call it a blockade. I dinna thin’ that word means what they thin’ it means. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/33 "2015-04-15T17:23:45Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > That goes beyond “misspoke” into full on dishonest. They’ve been calling it “el bloqueo” for half a century – I would put it down to nothing more than hot-blooded Latin temperament – and the use of the term “economic blockade” in this context [is not unusual](http://www.un.org/press/en/2011/ga11162.doc.htm). The reality is that it’s more than just trade sanctions in the ordinary meaning of the term. One thing that the EU and many other nations and international bodies found particularly arrogant about some of the specific laws – Helms-Burton in particular – was the extraterritorial prerogative to penalize _ **foreign** _ companies that did business with Cuba, by theoretically being able to ban them from doing any business in the US. Since the Helms-Burton law was justified by Cuba having nationalized US businesses there after the revolution, some intrepid Canadian politicians proposed the [Godfrey-Milliken Bill](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfrey%E2%80%93Milliken_Bill), which provided for descendants of United Empire Loyalists who fled the American Revolution to be able to reclaim land and property that was confiscated by the American government, which property was rightfully owned by said Loyalists under the laws of the British Empire and His Majesty the King. 😃 The thing was ridiculous of course, and a deliberate parody, because the whole Cuban embargo was and is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/34 "2015-04-15T17:24:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > . . . Freeptards . . . Do not create or use words employing the insulting suffix -tard in this forum. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/35 "2015-04-15T21:55:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [The Freeptards seem to think so.](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3277965/posts) But, even among them, I note a few dissenting voices. And why should we care what they think? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/36 "2015-04-16T01:21:22Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > That goes beyond “misspoke” into full on dishonest. Rauuuul! You got some ‘splainin’ to do! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/37 "2015-04-16T01:40:48Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The Cubans call it a blockade. And we called the blockade “a quarantine”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/38 "2015-04-16T02:26:34Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > They’ve been calling it “el bloqueo” for half a century – I would put it down to nothing more than hot-blooded Latin temperament… Please tell me you’re joking. Because that is, frankly, racist. More parsimonious is that languages vary and words morph all the time. The term “Latin” is a perfect example since they don’t actually speak Latin. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/39 "2015-04-16T15:46:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Please tell me you’re joking. Because that is, frankly, racist. That statement originally had a smiley-face but I took it out because there’s another one at the end and I dislike posts that are peppered with emoticons. The imagery of “hot-blooded Latin temperament” came from the humorist Dave Barry, who frequently uses it in reference to his wife Michelle, who is of Cuban descent. I don’t think Dave Barry is racist. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442/40 "2015-04-16T16:01:29Z")
I am curious about what kind of trade the USA would have with Cuba. Cuba exports sugar-we protect our sugar industry via high tariffs-and (ironically) the US (Florida) sugar production is owned by Cuban-Americans (Fanjool brothers). Cuba also exports rum, and produce-all of which compete with Florida-grown produce. that leaves nickel (there would be a market here, if we had any steelmaking left). So I don’t see a big boom in Cuban-American trade. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/castro-absolves-obama-of-fault-for-us-blockade/717442.md?page=3)