# Catcalls and Things People Shout at You from Cars **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124 "2009-07-24T14:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/101 "2009-07-30T20:34:55Z")
My wife is constantly taking shit from this sort of person. Last night she got caught walking home in a downpour. Caught in a white tank top. I don’t think I need to elaborate any further. Perhaps she gets an extra helping of shit because people tend to assume that small Asian women are submissive. One fellow on the LIRR discovered that this is not in fact the case after she accidentally broke his nose when he grabbed her tits. She saw him a week later on the train and he apologized. Imagine that. ---
**Author:** ![SlowMindThinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@SlowMindThinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlowMindThinking)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/102 "2009-07-30T20:36:53Z")
> [@liberty3701](#): > > Being told to smile (because women should never look serious!) I don’t think it’s because you’re a woman. I suspect they are either trying to cheer you up, whether or not you want it, or just think you’d look better smiling. I once had a woman (I’m a guy) tell me, “You should smile more” - as she left a bar with her male friend. I was just sitting there minding my own business and pitcher, waiting for my friends. ---
**Author:** ![Other\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Other\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Other_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/103 "2009-07-30T20:55:57Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > My wife is constantly taking shit from this sort of person. Last night she got caught walking home in a downpour. Caught in a white tank top. I don’t think I need to elaborate any further. > > Perhaps she gets an extra helping of shit because people tend to assume that small Asian women are submissive. One fellow on the LIRR discovered that this is not in fact the case after she accidentally broke his nose when he grabbed her tits. > > She saw him a week later on the train and he apologized. Imagine that. Go wifey! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/104 "2009-07-30T21:07:53Z")
> [@Other\_Dreams](#): > > Go wifey! 🆒 Indeed. I am quite fond of her. She did not even mean to break his face. She just wanted to punch him in the shoulder to get him to back off. But he flinched and tried to duck, so her fist took him right in the beak. He was traveling with a few friends at the time, and apparently, they all laughed until their sides split. She did not get to enjoy the scene for very long, since she ran like hell. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/105 "2009-07-30T21:13:05Z")
In Spain: all kinds of things that fell on the “nice” spectrum, from “long live your mother!” to “the only ugly one, the one in the middle” (walking with a friend) to more elaborate stuff. These were mostly from construction workers or truck drivers. All kinds of nastiness, from “hey li’l cunt” while grabbing his crotch to stuff that would have been nice if the tone of voice hadn’t made clear it wasn’t. Mostly from guys over 40 who refuse to believe the reason no woman other than their wives will look at them unpaid is that they look like a cross between a slug and the Pillsbury doughboy. In the US: there was a case of a compliment yelled in Spanish from a roof before the guy’s mates explained that “nooo, don’t do that here, they call it harassment man!” and I confirmed it. There have been several cases of gestures or rude noises, no words. Some even had the gall to try to look like it hadn’t been them who’d made the noise, when there wasn’t another person in sight. If you include mumbles along the lines of a guy telling his mate “check out that ass,” then the range of countries increases, but the OP asked for shouts. ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/106 "2009-07-30T23:57:48Z")
> [@SlowMindThinking](#): > > I don’t think it’s because you’re a woman. You could be right, but I’ve talked about this with a lot of women, and I haven’t run into one who hasn’t been told, by a stranger, to smile. Usually way more than once. > [@](#): > > I suspect they are either trying to cheer you up, whether or not you want it, or just think you’d look better smiling. Neither of these things is the business of a stranger. > [@](#): > > I once had a woman (I’m a guy) tell me, “You should smile more” - as she left a bar with her male friend. I was just sitting there minding my own business and pitcher, waiting for my friends. I note you said “once.” I can’t count the number of times I’ve been told. And here’s a few other people who have noted the phenomenon. Not that numbers make me right, but I’m not alone in being annoyed by this and seeing this as mainly a woman thing: [Here:](http://hollabackdc.wordpress.com/2009/07/13/command-smile/) > [@](#): > > The “Smile Police” as I call them may come off as benign to most people, but telling random women to “smile” is harassment in my opinion. Would that man have also told another man to smile? I doubt it. > > And the attitude some cop when a woman tells them that they don’t need to smile at their beck and call. Some men think that women are only on this planet to obey men’s commands. I’ve been a recipient of the “smile” too often for my tastes. A lot of times I’m tired, in a neutral mood, or just not in the mood to smile. A woman’s facial expression is not something for a random man to command. [Here:](http://www.feministing.com/archives/016316.html) > [@](#): > > Conservative Member of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) in Canada Doug Elniski has been catching a ton of shit for posting the text of a speech that he gave a couple of weeks ago to junior high school students on his blog, where he supposedly told the girls that “men are attracted to smiles” [Here:](http://echochamber.me/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40399&start=0) > [@](#): > > I’ve been told to smile before. Or, maybe it was another girl beside me who was told. Whatever, we were a group of women, and a guy walked by and said “You should smile” and then something like “you look better when you do…”. It was degrading, and… yeah. I really felt like something. not someone. [Here:](http://redactedblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/1001-things-i-hate.html) > [@](#): > > Men Who Tell Me To Smile > > Don’t do this. Don’t tell women to smile. No woman has ever said to another woman, “Smile!” But yet, countless times, I’ve been told by a man, “Smile!” or worse, “What’s the matter, Sweetie? Smile!” What gives you the right? I’m not a puppy. I know it might make you uncomfortable, Dude on the Elevator. You walked on, saw a chick, made a paltry attempt at flirting, and I didn’t respond. This is so disconcerting. Listen, I’m sorry to disrupt your projected feminine ideals, your stifled two-dimensional characterization. But why do you assume my lack of smile means something is wrong? Do you walk around all day smiling like a fulfilled Playmate? Maybe I’m thinking about war, or scotch, or sex. Maybe I’m thinking about work. Maybe I work. I know this is all too much. And I should just smile. But I won’t because I hate you, Dude on the Elevator. You are on my Blacklist™. [Here:](http://sexonmydesk.ivillage.com/love/archives/2006/11/are-you-a-holla-back-girl.html) > [@](#): > > If there’s one thing that I simply cannot deal with, it’s catcallers on the street telling me to “Smile, Baby.” It sounds so minor, but it’s just a pet peeve of mine; I smile when I darn well feel like it, thank you very much. Nancy Henley (_Body Politics: Power, Sex, and Nonverbal Communication_, 1986, New York: Simon and Schuster) wrote that the smile “is understood as a gesture offered upward in the status hierarchy,” and that this was part of why women smile more than men and are told to smile more than men and get chastised in public for not smiling. So, I’m not saying it only ever happens to women. But the vast majority of the time it’s a man telling a woman to smile. And it may not seem like that big of a deal, but it’s grating and degrading and can be really fucking obnoxious if you’re not smiling for a damn good reason. ---
**Author:** ![SlowMindThinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@SlowMindThinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlowMindThinking)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/107 "2009-07-31T03:28:56Z")
> [@liberty3701](#): > > You could be right, but I’ve talked about this with a lot of women, and I haven’t run into one who hasn’t been told, by a stranger, to smile. Usually way more than once. Neither of these things is the business of a stranger. I note you said “once.” I can’t count the number of times I’ve been told. Obviously I, and the other two guys who commented hit a nerve, but I don’t care how many anecdotes you have. Yes, I’ve only been told once in a bar, but I’m hardly ever in bars, and that was the only time alone - ever. I can think of three times I’ve been told that, and since I don’t really notice that kind of thing, I’m sure it is much more often than that. The fact is, a man is much more likely to say something to a strange woman, than the other way around, but that doesn’t make the comment alone sexist or judgmental. ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/108 "2009-07-31T04:40:38Z")
> [@SlowMindThinking](#): > > Obviously I, and the other two guys who commented hit a nerve, No, no nerve was hit. It something that affects me personally, and I was trying to maybe show you (and other people) how it feels to be told to smile all the time. > [@](#): > > but I don’t care how many anecdotes you have. To be fair, your only refutation of my claim was an anecdote of your own. > [@](#): > > Yes, I’ve only been told once in a bar, but I’m hardly ever in bars, and that was the only time alone - ever. I wasn’t talking about getting told this in bars. I mean, random men, on the street, commanding me (not suggesting) to smile. At least once a week. > [@](#): > > The fact is, a man is much more likely to say something to a strange woman, than the other way around, but that doesn’t make the comment alone sexist or judgmental. Well, it kinda does; the fact that men feel they can say stuff to random women is a power play. But I think you’re missing a big point here. It’s demeaning. It’s solely about the way a woman looks. It’s inappropriate. And I don’t want to pull this card, but if you haven’t been in the situation where people with more power than you are repeatedly demanding that you smile, or giving you crap for not smiling, you don’t really know how it feels. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/109 "2009-07-31T12:44:04Z")
> [@liberty3701](#): > > It’s demeaning. It’s solely about the way a woman looks. It’s inappropriate. It’s flirting. Go to any site devoted to customer service people complaining about their customers and you’ll see women talking about their employer telling them to smile and how their smiles get misinterpreted by their male customers as flirting. > [@SlowMindThinking](#): > > I once had a woman (I’m a guy) tell me, “You should smile more” - as she left a bar with her male friend. I was just sitting there minding my own business and pitcher, waiting for my friends. She was flirting with you. Or at least suggesting how you can better flirt with others. ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/110 "2009-07-31T13:07:25Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > It’s flirting. It’s flirting if done by someone in a bar or other situation in which the woman has made it clear that talking to her is encouraged. Walking down the street, minding my own damn business, it’s harassment – demeaning and inappropriate. > [@](#): > > Go to any site devoted to customer service people complaining about their customers and you’ll see women talking about their employer telling them to smile and how their smiles get misinterpreted by their male customers as flirting. What does this have to do with being told to smile by random strangers on the street? I’m well aware that women are told to smile as part of customer service, and that a woman’s smile (or any smile from a subordinate to a person in power) can be taken as the smiler wanting to please the person being smiled at. In fact, this is a good illustration of my point, in a way. Women are supposed to smile, even if they’re not happy, in order to make other people happy/at ease/buy stuff. When a woman doesn’t smile, she’s chastised. If she does, it’s taken as an invitation by the person being smiled at. There’s a damn good reason I don’t smile at people when I walk down the street. Being told by a random stranger on the street to smile is as much flirting as being told you have “nice tits” by a random stranger on the street. I’m not sure why this is so controversial, out of all the things I said in my first post. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/111 "2009-07-31T14:14:13Z")
> [@liberty3701](#): > > It’s flirting if done by someone in a bar or other situation in which the woman has made it clear that talking to her is encouraged. Walking down the street, minding my own damn business, it’s harassment – demeaning and inappropriate. Cool your jets, I’m on your side. It’s harrassment, demeaning, inappropraite, and an attempt to flirt. An attempt which obviously is not welcome. > [@](#): > > _What does this have to do with being told to smile by random strangers on the street?_ This: > [@](#): > > In fact, this is a good illustration of my point, in a way. Women are supposed to smile, even if they’re not happy, in order to make other people happy/at ease/buy stuff. When a woman doesn’t smile, she’s chastised. If she does, it’s taken as an invitation by the person being smiled at. ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/112 "2009-07-31T14:25:32Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Cool your jets, I’m on your side. It’s harrassment, demeaning, inappropraite, and an attempt to flirt. An attempt which obviously is not welcome. Thanks, I misunderstood your post. I do have a problem with calling it flirting, though, because that comes across as something harmless and desirable, and as if the people saying this really think they have a chance of getting in a woman’s pants. It’s about more than that, as I talked about in my first post. But please don’t tell me to “cool your jets.” It’s really annoying that people are assuming that I’m over here freaking out. I’m sorry if my posting style somehow comes across as frenetic or something; I guess I have to work on that. It’s just incredibly belittling to be told that my jets are hot or that my nerve has been struck. I’m just trying to explain something that is hard to understand if it hasn’t happened to you. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/113 "2009-07-31T14:40:22Z")
> [@liberty3701](#): > > I do have a problem with calling it flirting, though, because that comes across as something harmless and desirable, and as if the people saying this really think they have a chance of getting in a woman’s pants. I intended to illustrate how _they_ think it is flirting and harmless; they probably do think they might have a chance, however small (cf.: the Home Depot story from **overlyverbose** ). > [@](#): > > \*But please don’t tell me to “cool your jets.” \* Sorry, was just trying to keep it light with a little Bloom County reference. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/114 "2009-07-31T14:41:10Z")
So about the smiling thing… I have never, even once, been told by a random woman to smile. There was one time, when I was 19, when a strange woman walked up to me and asked, “What’s the matter, sweetie?” but I was quite visibly distressed at the moment. That is, I was crying. I cannot count how many times random men have demanded that I smile, or requested to know what was the matter with me even though nothing was the matter, and no indication of such had been given. Simply not smiling does not indicate that anything is wrong. Who, besides crazy people, walks around smiling at all times? And were I to don a perma-scowl, I’m not sure why I should be required to discuss my mood with strangers on the sidewalk. Perhaps the next time some random asschap walks up to me and asks me what is wrong I should respond, “People keep bothering me when I’m minding my business, trying to get home.” I actually think “Smile!” annoys me more than “Nice tits.” > [@liberty3701](#): > > Women are supposed to smile, even if they’re not happy, in order to make other people happy/at ease/buy stuff. When a woman doesn’t smile, she’s chastised. If she does, it’s taken as an invitation by the person being smiled at. Isn’t this an awful paradox? ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/115 "2009-07-31T14:53:54Z")
**Lute** , I’m sorry that I jumped down your throat, as it were. You’ve made some good points, and I appreciate it. I think I still disagree with the flirting thing when it’s done by random people on the street, but point taken. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/116 "2009-07-31T15:17:37Z")
> [@liberty3701](#): > > the people saying this really think they have a chance of getting in a woman’s pants. I know guys who treat this the way spammers treat spamming. Your return on investment may be minuscule, but in the long run the few hits you get make it worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/117 "2009-07-31T15:34:11Z")
> [@liberty3701](#): > > **Lute** , I’m sorry that I jumped down your throat, as it were. No prob. > [@](#): > > _I think I still disagree with the flirting thing when it’s done by random people on the street, but point taken._ Right, to you it’s unwanted attention but to them… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/118 "2009-07-31T15:49:34Z")
Old story I was told. A guy yelled at a girl walking down the street, “Hey I would like a little pussy”. She turns and holds her hands about 2 feet apart and says"so would I .mines about this big" ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/119 "2009-07-31T16:04:01Z")
> [@liberty3701](#): > > In fact, this is a good illustration of my point, in a way. Women are supposed to smile, even if they’re not happy, in order to make other people happy/at ease/buy stuff. When a woman doesn’t smile, she’s chastised. If she does, it’s taken as an invitation by the person being smiled at. There’s a damn good reason I don’t smile at people when I walk down the street. I recommend any man or woman who doesn’t think it’s a big deal or demeaning hang out around Wall Street and stop men hurrying by with ‘Perk up and smile! What could possibly be so bad?’ and ‘Hey there, turn that frown upside down!’ Then have lunch at a nice restaurant in the area and do the same with people at other tables. ‘Smile, you’d look more handsome!’ ‘Stop frowning – you’ll get wrinkles.’ The last time I was told this was at a coffee shop right after I got off the phone with a friend who told me she had to put down her dog The guy behind me in line – an older man in a business suit – tut-tutted and told me to ‘brighten up and smile’ as if he were talking to a child. The implication was hardly subtle – that I couldn’t possibly have any sort of stress or worry in my life, and even if I did, I should fake it so men like him could find me pretty. Sure he may have been flirting, but I was ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124/120 "2009-07-31T17:33:42Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > In Spain: Yeah, Spain. Great country. When she was 16, a strange man followed my wife back to her hotel from about 50’ away. He was singing. And masturbating vigorously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcalls-and-things-people-shout-at-you-from-cars/504124.md?page=7)