# Catch-All Dio Pitting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997 "2011-04-11T20:04:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/481 "2011-04-18T21:04:09Z")
Yeah, Dio’s info jibes with what I learned from my biblical studies in my misspent youth. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/482 "2011-04-18T21:06:08Z")
SERIOUSLY? My Jewish education, Wiki, Jewfaq, [Chabad.org](http://Chabad.org), etc. all failed me? brb I’m going to the bookshelf (the old fashioned way) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/483 "2011-04-18T21:07:04Z")
I always remember the sacrificial lamb because it was supposed to be eaten with “bitter herbs.” I don’t know why, but that was always appealing. Ooh, bitter herbs! ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/484 "2011-04-18T21:08:51Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Where?! Why would you argue about something you are clearly clueless about? Bizarre. eta: Wiki failed you? > **[Passover sacrifice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korban_Pesach)** > > The Passover sacrifice (Hebrew: קרבן פסח, romanized: Qorban Pesaḥ), also known as the Paschal lamb or the Passover lamb, is the sacrifice that the Torah mandates the Israelites to ritually slaughter on the evening of Nisan 14, before Passover of Nisan 15, and eat lamb on the first night of the holiday with bitter herbs and matzo. According to the Torah, it was first offered on the night of the Exodus from Egypt. Although practiced by Jews in ancient times, the sacrifice is today not performed by... I think you failed wiki. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/485 "2011-04-18T21:11:45Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I always remember the sacrificial lamb because it was supposed to be eaten with “bitter herbs.” I don’t know why, but that was always appealing. Ooh, bitter herbs! “And Jesus turned, and saith unto them, ‘Bitter herbs? I hardly know her!’” ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/486 "2011-04-18T21:18:12Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I wouldn’t give a flying fig if **Dio** stayed or was banned if the threads we are all trying to participate in didn’t get shut down because of his assholery. **Arnold Winkelried** would you share your thoughts on this? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/487 "2011-04-18T21:18:20Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > eta: Wiki failed you? > [Passover sacrifice - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korban_Pesach) > I think you failed wiki. Wrong. Dio is confusing Passover, where a lamb was sacrificed, with Yom Kippur, where a goat had the sins of the people placed upon it and was led off to die in the wilderness in atonement for the people’s sins. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/488 "2011-04-18T21:29:00Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Wrong. > > Dio is confusing Passover, where a lamb was sacrificed, with Yom Kippur, where a goat had the sins of the people placed upon it and was led off to die in the wilderness in atonement for the people’s sins. I can’t believe that a handful of ignorant Dopers had me sweating my cajones over this. I seriously did just dig out three Jewish history books, wondering if somehow we went from two atonement festivals to one in the rabbinical period, and if so, how come this was never mentioned in the Torah? ! I will accept apologies. :o ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/489 "2011-04-18T21:29:14Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Wrong. > > Dio is confusing Passover, where a lamb was sacrificed, with Yom Kippur, where a goat had the sins of the people placed upon it and was led off to die in the wilderness in atonement for the people’s sins. Oh no he isnt! ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/490 "2011-04-18T21:33:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why would you argue about something you are clearly clueless about? Bizarre. > > eta: Wiki failed you? > [Passover sacrifice - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korban_Pesach) > I think you failed wiki. Negatorio, mate. You failed in this thread. all right, gotta go help the kid practice his Four Questions before I feel like a real failure. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/491 "2011-04-18T21:34:09Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Dio is confusing Passover, … with Yom Kippur,… But of course, he’ll never admit that confusion. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/492 "2011-04-18T21:35:56Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Wrong. > > Dio is confusing Passover, where a lamb was sacrificed, with Yom Kippur, where a goat had the sins of the people placed upon it and was led off to die in the wilderness in atonement for the people’s sins. You’re right. On a quick read through I see that the passover sacrifice was different in that it wasn’t for sins. However, saying Dio “made up a holiday” is quite wrong, he just conflated the two (note to “Dio is infallible on the Bible” people). The fact that CitizenPained didn’t manage to google “Paschal Lamb” doesn’t leave me much room to give her credit for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/493 "2011-04-18T21:47:37Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You’re right. On a quick read through I see that the passover sacrifice was different in that it wasn’t for sins. However, saying Dio “made up a holiday” is quite wrong, he just conflated the two (note to “Dio is infallible on the Bible” people). The fact that CitizenPained didn’t manage to google “Paschal Lamb” doesn’t leave me much room to give her credit for anything. Bullshit. I get _all_ the credit here. First, I don’t _need_ to Google paschal lamb. I even stated in the thread that I’m perfectly aware of the traditions surrounding the sacrifices during the First & Second temple eras. It would make sense, you know, being Jewish and stuff, and like, having you know, like a certificate in Jewish Studies, nu? Dio was **wrong**. He did make up a new holiday - a hybrid holiday maybe - but a new one nonetheless. (I should note that Passover is a hybrid holiday. :o) Shit, I was even willing to sincerely apologize if I somehow missed a major point in early Jewish history. I even asked Finn, Google, and a couple of history books I have on the shelf after people started saying I was _obviously_ wrong. Had I been wrong, I would have been tough enough to own up to it. Dio, on the other hand, will probably change the meaning of a word or two so that he’s still ‘correct’. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/494 "2011-04-18T21:55:39Z")
For someone who signed up to this board less than a month ago, you sure seem invested in this Dio issue, CP. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/495 "2011-04-18T21:56:37Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Shit, I was even willing to sincerely apologize if I somehow missed a major point in early Jewish history. I even asked Finn, Google, and a couple of history books I have on the shelf after people started saying I was _obviously_ wrong. Had I been wrong, I would have been tough enough to own up to it. Dio, on the other hand, will probably change the meaning of a word or two so that he’s still ‘correct’. What exactly did you ask Google? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/496 "2011-04-18T22:10:47Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > For someone who signed up to this board less than a month ago, you sure seem invested in this Dio issue, CP. I really don’t care about Dio and his Dio-railments. I just don’t like his claim to be a “historian” of “Jewish history” based on his “knowledge of Greek”. Makey no sense. After getting into two rounds of his shit, I decided you guys weren’t just picking on him. He also does seem to get a bit of a pass on the arbitrary forum “rules”. Yeah, being a newbie can have its benefits. I don’t have five years of Doper history to cloud my judgment. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/497 "2011-04-18T22:10:56Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Bullshit. I get _all_ the credit here. > > First, I don’t _need_ to Google paschal lamb. I even stated in the thread that I’m perfectly aware of the traditions surrounding the sacrifices during the First & Second temple eras. It would make sense, you know, being Jewish and stuff, and like, having you know, like a certificate in Jewish Studies, nu? > > Dio was **wrong**. He did make up a new holiday - a hybrid holiday maybe - but a new one nonetheless. (I should note that Passover is a hybrid holiday. :o) > > Shit, I was even willing to sincerely apologize if I somehow missed a major point in early Jewish history. I even asked Finn, Google, and a couple of history books I have on the shelf after people started saying I was _obviously_ wrong. Had I been wrong, I would have been tough enough to own up to it. Dio, on the other hand, will probably change the meaning of a word or two so that he’s still ‘correct’. Here’s a hint: When you are jumping up and down in excitement over a gotcha ya moment regarding Dio’s incorrect description of a ritual involving the sacrifice of an unblemished lamb, it might be helpful to be more clear that you’re overwrought about the less eye catching part about whether it was done for atonement or not. Especially when you are asked what part in particular it was that he got wrong. Otherwise you end up looking like a punctilious dumbass with a certificate in Jewish studies. Nice harpoon there, Capt. Ahab. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/498 "2011-04-18T22:23:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Here’s a hint: When you are jumping up and down in excitement over a gotcha ya moment regarding Dio’s incorrect description of a ritual involving the sacrifice of an unblemished lamb, it might be helpful to be more clear that you’re overwrought about the less eye catching part about whether it was done for atonement or not. Especially when you are asked what part in particular it was that he got wrong. > > Otherwise you end up looking like a punctilious dumbass with a certificate in Jewish studies. > > Nice harpoon there, Capt. Ahab. First of all, that’s _Miss_ Capt. Ahab to you, and second if all, if you read this thread correctly, you’ll see that **someone** said Google agreed with Dio but didn’t cite where. Gee. :rolleyes: Sounds like a Dio! “I’m right! No cite!” Third, if you look at the post I [cited](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13701707&postcount=127) and the [thread in question](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13701707#post13701707), you will clearly [see](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13700965&postcount=122) (provided you can distinguish the bold print) that my point of contention was his equating Passover with a fucking atonement of sins festival. I clearly stated that he had his holidays mixed up. > [@](#): > > Dio, you are wrong. The bolded words clearly indicate you are saying that Passover = sin forgiving time for a year via lamb. > > Dude, you got that confused with another holiday. > > Passover has nothing to do with sins. It’s a celebration. > > You are wrong. If you want to be a prick, then I guess this is good way to do it. In a single post, Dio managed to change the entire meaning of a holiday: > [@](#): > > **and specifically in the ancient Jewish practice of sacrificing an unblemished lamb at Passover for an annual forgiveness of sins. The lambs were killed at the Temple, and their blood was poured on the altar, and sins were forgiven for the year.** ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/499 "2011-04-18T22:28:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She’s some new stalker that’s been following me around the board trying pick fights. She’s not very bright or informed and is persistently dishonest as well. She thinks I made up the Paschal lamb. Whatever. At least I know my Jewish history and don’t walk around the boards like a “historian” with a B.A. in Sanctimonious Assholitry. Please **cite** where I said you made up the paschal lamb. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997/500 "2011-04-18T22:48:09Z")
Same argument in two threads? Well I guess I can post here what I posted there, but with less great-debatey language. In a nutshell there’s support for **Dio’s** position regarding Passover rituals being for atonement although I wouldn’t call it a fair description of the ritual. It was foremost about the remembrance/community building. Probably the best support there is for the atonement interpretation takes the form of [Ezekiel Chapter 45, verses 21-23](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+45-48&version=NIV) > [@](#): > > 21 “‘In the first month on the fourteenth day you are to observe the Passover, a festival lasting seven days, during which you shall eat bread made without yeast. 22 On that day the prince is to provide a bull as a sin offering for himself and for all the people of the land. 23 Every day during the seven days of the festival he is to provide seven bulls and seven rams without defect as a burnt offering to the LORD, and a male goat for a sin offering. In the 2000+ years since the destruction of the second temple it’s been 99%+ about the community and remembrance aspects and the atonement aspect has pretty much gone by the wayside in modern Jewish practice, but Passover as was celebrated during the ancient times was a time for reflection and community bonding with a side of atonement. Enjoy, Steven [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-all-dio-pitting/577997.md?page=26)