# Catch me up on Marvel continuity
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [July 29, 2005, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704 "2005-07-29T05:29:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/21 "2005-07-30T09:08:49Z")
Thanks for the updates. This is why I like the Ultimates titles: no baggage.
But I savor the irony that some people are complaining there’s no point in following the storylines because there’s too many changes to keep up with and other people are complaining that there’s no point in following the storylines because there’s never any real changes.
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### Author:  [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/22 "2005-07-30T14:35:35Z")
> [@Hoops](#):
>
> [The House of M](http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/251383), another Flash cartoon lovingly lampooning Marvel storylines from the guy who gave us [Death Becomes Them](http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/218160) and [Dark Phoenix Rising](http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/219810).
“Ah! Paper Clips!!” 😃
That man is my hero.
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### Author:  [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/23 "2005-07-30T14:38:25Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#):
>
> But I savor the irony that some people are complaining there’s no point in following the storylines because there’s too many changes to keep up with and other people are complaining that there’s no point in following the storylines because there’s never any real changes.
To be fair, most of the changes involve changing other writers changes or simply making people that were dead alive again. There just seems to be very little respect for the work of the previous writers. Tis shameful.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/24 "2005-07-30T14:40:36Z")
Heh! I love how Emma sounds like Katherine Hepburn…
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### Author:  [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/25 "2005-07-30T16:18:39Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#):
>
> But I savor the irony that some people are complaining there’s no point in following the storylines because there’s too many changes to keep up with and other people are complaining that there’s no point in following the storylines because there’s never any real changes.
No irony there. People are complaining that there are no lasting changes. In other words, while changes may occur, they are quickly undone by subsequent writers.
As **Harborwolf** said, there is little respect among Marvel writers for the work done by their predecessors. (I’m talking 'bout you, John Byrne!)
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### Author:  [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/26 "2005-07-30T17:23:47Z")
I can see what people mean by things taking foreeeveeerr to happen. I quite got into Bendis’ Daredevil, and liked the idea of Murdock being exposed and finally taking down the kingpin at the same time. I recently checked in and nothing’s happened since! It’s been something like 2 years and he’s still slowly exploring what his big shakeup has done for everyone in Hell’s Kitchen.
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### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/27 "2005-07-30T18:16:10Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#):
>
> Thanks for the updates. This is why I like the Ultimates titles: no baggage.
>
> But I savor the irony that some people are complaining there’s no point in following the storylines because there’s too many changes to keep up with and other people are complaining that there’s no point in following the storylines because there’s never any real changes.
The two aren’t mutually contradictory. There’s a phrase that’s used at Marvel called “The illusion of change”. You don’t actually _change_ something for good (Peter graduating high school, Reed and Sue getting married), you just make a temporary change and then reset it back. The last major ‘real’ change was Peter and MJ’s marriage\*, which Peter David and other Marvel writers have bitched about.
What’s happening in Marvel is that, like a stage magician riffing cards too quickly for the eye to follow, the ‘illusionary changes’ are coming too fast to matter and the resets are also happening too fast to matter. For example. Grant Morrison spent something like 15 issues setting Magneto up for a big earth-shaking battle wherein he kills hundred of thousands of people and wrecks New York. Great, _great_ story. Morrison leaves the book about 4 issues later. Within a couple of weeks, Chris Claremont comes back to one of the X-Books and _poof_ “Oops. Nope. That wasn’t Magneto who killed all those people and had the first interesting Magneto storyline in years, it was a clone or something. Magneto is still the soppy, sivelly sensititve new-age guy that I’ve written him as for the last 20 tedious years” Busiek spent 50-some issues defining Wanda’s power as a mutation that lets her tap into “Chaos magick”. Bendis takes over the book and _poof_ we learn from Dr Strange that “there’s no such thing as chaos magick”. Now multiply that kind of crap by…what 24 or so monthly titles and that’s how changes can come to fast and still never have any real changes.
By the way, one very minor quibble
> [@Candid Gamera](#):
>
> it’s because Wanda has finally snapped. Her powers were twisting reality around; before the arc was over, Hawkeye and Ant-Man II were dead, and the Vision was destroyed.
The word “finally” should be replaced by “suddenly”. It’s not like there was any real lead-up to it, IMO.
\*The “Scott & Emma” thing doesn’t count 'cause it’s A) too new and B) c’mon. Jean’ll be back within a year.
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### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/28 "2005-07-30T18:20:54Z")
> [@Hoops](#):
>
> [The House of M](http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/251383), another Flash cartoon lovingly lampooning Marvel storylines from the guy who gave us [Death Becomes Them](http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/218160) and [Dark Phoenix Rising](http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/219810).
Alright…that was A) accurate and B) hysterical. Thanks for the links!
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### Author:  [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/29 "2005-07-30T18:52:00Z")
I have to disagree with Fenris about Scarlet Witch “suddenly” snapping. Wanda had routinely been written as unstable ever since the twins were destroyed and Vision de-humanized. It’s come up from time to time but then usually explained away by _someone_ manipulating her. The question has been; how much of that is her and how much of it is the other? Same holds for her brother Quicksilver. He’d go from bad to good to insane to good to bad to good again frequently. I think ultimately they explained it as Maximus (is that right? Black Bolt’s brother) routinely messing with Quicksilver.
Those two characters are just really unstable people. They have periods where things are good… but sometimes not so good. I don’t think it was neccessarily out of left field.
- Push You Down (who is still mad that the revelation that Quicksilver’s powers being temporal based and not speed based has been ignored since it was revealed)
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### Author:  [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/30 "2005-07-31T00:48:50Z")
> [@VCO3](#):
>
> About a year ago, Xavier left the X-men to spend time in the ruins of Genosha, the mutant utopia that was destroyed by Sentinels in Grant Morrisson’s run on “New X-men.” I don’t remember the specifics, but it was a pretty generic reason along the lines of “Look where my dream got us” - a pretty cookie-cutter, angsty reason for leaving leadership.
BTW, the “Death Becomes Them” flash movie above pretty well summerizes this bit of the story. (And how it was modified, after the new creative team came onboard, to fit the new storylines.)
Hey, come to think of it…Bucky Barnes has been brought back recently, AND the House of M features a ressurected Uncle Ben. Is that a sign of the apocalypse or what?
_And_ I think Vision might have been brought back to life, or is going to be brought back soon, or something. But, if the Marvel Previews I leafed through is any indication, it seems he still retains his [usual costume.](http://www.onebyonellc.com/images/O-PIweb.jpg)
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### Author:  [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/31 "2005-07-31T01:16:20Z")
Speaking of disrespect for the writers prior, I’ve heard a lot of rumors that this whole House of M bit is going to be used to do some “resetting” of characters. It could be enough to force me out of Marvel for good. It’s bad enough that Magneto is alive again (and people joke about Jean Grey coming back to life). If they go screwing things up too much, I’m done. :mad:
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/32 "2005-07-31T03:19:52Z")
But we did get this classic line in _House of M - Uncanny X-Men_ 462:
_“And what is this? I swear, if I’m dead again–!”_
Chris Claremont - master of self-parody or prisoner of his own cliches?
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### Author:  [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/33 "2005-08-01T20:51:26Z")
**Scott** , thanks for the Wikipedia link. A person can really get lost in there, can’t they? And I’ll check out the others too this week.
**Harborwolf** , one of the few things you mentioned in your current teams post that I’ve read was about Colossus coming back. I agree with you that he should not have been brought back because of what I now understand about the Legacy Virus (noble death indeed, and now it seems wasted), but I don’t think I’d call Whedon a hack writer. I particularly liked the scenes between Kitty and Emma Frost in those issues, and the actions of the others seem to fit right in where I left off all those years ago.
But Scott and Frost getting busy? How can anyone (besides Kitty) _not_ think she’s controlling his head (yes, both of them.)
> [@Harborwolf](#):
>
> The current teams that I know of are:
>
> 1. Cyclops, Emma Frost (theys sweeties now), Kitty Pryde (who rejoined the X-Men after a brief hiatus following the death of Colossus), Beast, Wolverine, and Colossus (who sacrificed himself to release the cure to the legacy virus in one of the best issues of X-Men ever. Now he’s alive because of some alien race and because a hack writer decided to crap on his noble death. I’m less than thrilled)
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### Author:  [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/34 "2005-08-01T21:28:33Z")
> [@Sean Factotum](#):
>
> But Scott and Frost getting busy? How can anyone (besides Kitty) _not_ think she’s controlling his head
They read New X-Men #154, that’s how.
–Cliffy
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### Author:  [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)
#### Post date: [August 2, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/35 "2005-08-02T01:50:43Z")
> [@Sean Factotum](#):
>
> **Harborwolf** , one of the few things you mentioned in your current teams post that I’ve read was about Colossus coming back. I agree with you that he should not have been brought back because of what I now understand about the Legacy Virus (noble death indeed, and now it seems wasted), but I don’t think I’d call Whedon a hack writer. I particularly liked the scenes between Kitty and Emma Frost in those issues, and the actions of the others seem to fit right in where I left off all those years ago.
I like what I’ve read of his run, and I enjoy his writing on everything else. Some things I just cannot forgive. Thusly, I proclaim him a hack.
He’s just a better hack than most. 😉
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### Author:  [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)
#### Post date: [August 2, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/36 "2005-08-02T05:30:14Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#):
>
> Hey, come to think of it…Bucky Barnes has been brought back recently, AND the House of M features a ressurected Uncle Ben. Is that a sign of the apocalypse or what?
Are you serious?
I don’t read all that many comics but I remember the Marvel company line has always been “nobody stays dead… except Bucky and Uncle Ben”.
Don’t tell me they ditched that?
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### Author:  [@mkl12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkl12)
#### Post date: [August 2, 2005, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/37 "2005-08-02T09:51:03Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#):
>
> Are you serious?
>
> I don’t read all that many comics but I remember the Marvel company line has always been “nobody stays dead… except Bucky and Uncle Ben”.
>
> Don’t tell me they ditched that?
House of M is an alternate Universe, and I’ve only seen Bucky in Ultimates, another alternate universe. So in the main “continuity”, they are still dead. Unless I’ve missed something, which is very possible.
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [August 2, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/38 "2005-08-02T19:30:56Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#):
>
> la la la la la la THERE WAS NO CLONE la la la la la la la
\
If you’ve got a day or two, go read [The Life of Reilly,](http://www.newcomicreviews.com/GHM/specials/LifeOfReilly/1.html) an in-depth look at the mechanics behind the whole Spider-clone fiasco. Even if you never read the original comics (I bailed out halfway through), the inside dirt on how Marvel’s various editors and departments were screwing each other over that mess is a fascinating read.
\
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### Author:  [@Kyle\_Rayner1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyle_Rayner1)
#### Post date: [August 2, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/39 "2005-08-02T23:55:31Z")
> [@rjung](#):
>
> \
>
> If you’ve got a day or two, go read [The Life of Reilly,](http://www.newcomicreviews.com/GHM/specials/LifeOfReilly/1.html) an in-depth look at the mechanics behind the whole Spider-clone fiasco. Even if you never read the original comics (I bailed out halfway through), the inside dirt on how Marvel’s various editors and departments were screwing each other over that mess is a fascinating read.
>
> \
Yeah, those are great articles **rjung**. Very interesting. I’m just upset they killed Ben I think he was a better Spider-Man than Peter but I’m probably alone in that opinion.
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### Author:  [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)
#### Post date: [August 2, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catch-me-up-on-marvel-continuity/314704/40 "2005-08-02T23:57:59Z")
> [@Kyle Rayner1](#):
>
> Yeah, those are great articles **rjung**. Very interesting. I’m just upset they killed Ben I think he was a better Spider-Man than Peter but I’m probably alone in that opinion.
No, you’re not. Back in the whole mess of the clone affair, there was a four issue series drawn by Romita Jr. centered around Ben Reilly while he was in Salt Lake City. I was only ever able to get the first two issues, but they remain among my all time favorite comics. Good art and great story. That series alone was _almost_ worth the nightmare.
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