# Catcher drops third strike. Batter starts running. Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 14, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671 "2005-09-14T21:54:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TheBoneyKingofNowhere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@TheBoneyKingofNowhere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoneyKingofNowhere)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671/41 "2005-09-19T15:55:46Z")
As just mentioned, once the umpire deems the fielder has control of the ball, it’s an out. Even if it’s for less than a second… something which happens much more frequently that you see in a similar fashion is during a double play turn at second base. Very often the shortstop or 2nd baseman will catch the ball while stepping on second base and _immediatly_ (in a fraction of a second) lose the ball in the transfer to make the throw to first. The umpire will almost always make the out at 2nd base call anyway. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671/42 "2005-09-19T16:03:04Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > I think another crucial point here is that the batter is out on the catch of a fly ball when the umpire calls the batter out. So once that happens, the batter is out. The call isn’t going to change. > > If you watch an umpire make a call on a fly ball, they don’t make them in a hurry. They wait a little bit and then call “out”. This is true. But to the casual observer, having a ball in your mitt for five seconds qualifies as catching the ball, does it not? My point is there’s more to an out than simply having the ball in your glove for a long time. I think most baseball fans would think the Dave Martinez play is an out–he clearly held on to the ball, he clearly made a catch. He just did not “volunatarily and intentionally” release the ball afterwards. My point stands: Simply catching the ball does not an out make. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671/43 "2005-09-19T19:00:34Z")
Yes, it would have looked like an out, but since no umpire said “out”, it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671/44 "2005-09-19T19:15:01Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > Yes, it would have looked like an out, but since no umpire said “out”, it wasn’t. But it’s not simply a case of the umpire not saying he was out. It’s the correct interpretation of the rules, according to the web site I linked you to. Which is the whole point of this discussion, I thought. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671/45 "2005-09-19T19:17:45Z")
I think we got off track quite a while ago… Ultimately as Bill Klem said, when asked how he called plays, “They aren’t anything until I call them.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671/46 "2005-09-19T19:30:39Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > I think we got off track quite a while ago… > > Ultimately as Bill Klem said, when asked how he called plays, “They aren’t anything until I call them.” I guess we must have, then, because I’m as confused as hell now. My example was just to explain that the simple act of keeping the ball in your possession is not enough to satisfy a “catch” under the rules of baseball, which is what was asserted. After all, this is GQ, and simply saying “he’s out because the umpire says he out” is about as satisfying an explanation as “because I said so.” The rule book clearly stipulates two parts to satistisfying the conditions of a catch. Controlling the ball is one of them. Voluntarily and intentionally releasing the ball is the other. If the umpire had called Dawson out on the play, he would not have made a bad call. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671/47 "2005-09-19T23:03:53Z")
My point was referring to someone who asked if a fielder who dropped the ball after catching what should be the third out was making an error. And I was saying it wasn’t because once the umpire called the batter out for the third out, the fielder could pretty much do what he wants with the ball (such as throw it in the stands.) We just kept replying to different questions that got tossed in. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671/48 "2005-09-20T02:10:44Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > But that wasn’t the issue at hand. This is: > > Since another fielder came up to him and took the ball out of the mitt, it was ruled that his release of the ball was not “volunary and intential,” thus nullifying the catch. Once again, I could be wrong, but this is what I remember. It seems to follow the rules as quoted, as well, unless you see a different interpretation to that section. "You’re right in a sense. The first fielder did not catch the ball. The second fielder did. As long as his release was “voluntary and intentional” then it’s a catch. And if you’re scorign it the first fielder gets an assist. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671/49 "2005-09-20T06:33:33Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > Ultimately as Bill Klem said, when asked how he called plays, “They aren’t anything until I call them.” Klem once admitted that the deciding run of one game in the 1911 World Series was scored by Giants player Larry Doyle, who slid six inches wide from the plate to avoid a tag that wasn’t made. Doyle stood up and brushed himself opff and returned to the dugout, and Klem had no way to call him out, since the A’s’ catcher also walked away. And there was the run Bernie Carbo didn’t score in the 1970 Series, when Elrod Hendricks tagged Carbo without touching the plate. From what I’ve read about that play, plate umpire Ken Burkhart made the call with his back to the play! ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671/50 "2005-09-20T11:09:13Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > But it’s not simply a case of the umpire not saying he was out. It’s the correct interpretation of the rules, according to the web site I linked you to. Which is the whole point of this discussion, I thought. Actually, it _is_ a simple case of the umpire not saying he was out… because if the umpire would have said it was an out, it would have been. Because the umpire never called the out… it wasn’t. It’s a judgement call by the umpire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catcher-drops-third-strike-batter-starts-running-why/321671.md?page=2)