# Catholic cardinal criticises gay marriages plan **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 4, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756 "2012-03-04T21:46:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/1 "2012-03-04T21:46:33Z")
[link here](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17249099) I know it isn’t exactly news but fuck me! This is the leader of the Scottish Catholic church. Exactly how out of touch is he? Would you like some gems? yes, of course you would. > [@](#): > > Cardinal Keith O’Brien, the leader of the Catholic Church in Scotland, said the plans were a “grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right”. Even for the Catholic church that is industrial-grade bullshit. > [@](#): > > He said it was wrong to deliberately deprive a child of a mother or father. Because of course if gay marriage remains off-limits then all those homosexuals will switch to being heterosexuals and raise 2.2 golden-haired children in a loving and fulfilling marriage. Her in Laura Ashley gingham, he with pipe and string-backed driving gloves. He says it would… > [@](#): > > “shame the United Kingdom in the eyes of the world”. No…no it won’t. Equality is generally considered a good thing, a trait of a civilised nation. > [@](#): > > He added: "Imagine for a moment that the government had decided to legalise slavery but assured us that ‘no one will be forced to keep a slave’. Hang on…I seem to recall some other authority figure that was OK with the whole slavery thing… As others in the article say, when you stoop to that level of fuck-waddery, you _know_ you’ve lost the argument. I see this as last-ditch, desperate strokes against a tide of equality legislation that the Catholic church\* know\* will drown them. Cardinal…you’ve lost. Get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/2 "2012-03-04T21:55:56Z")
> [@](#): > > He added: "Imagine for a moment that the government had decided to legalise slavery but assured us that ‘no one will be forced to keep a slave’. " I’d be reasonably comfortable with legalized slavery, with the assurance that no one would ever be forced to be a slave. Right now, not very far from me at all, are people happily pretending to be each others’ slaves… Gay marriage offers me the same protection: no one is ever going to compel me to marry a man (or woman!) I don’t want to. The Cardinal is being a doofus. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/3 "2012-03-04T22:29:14Z")
Is this the same guy who said sex education was pornography last year? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/4 "2012-03-05T00:12:48Z")
nm, misread OP ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/5 "2012-03-05T01:05:25Z")
Am I missing something here? Why would a Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church _not_ criticize a gay marriage plan? It’s hardly remarkable. Now if you were to pit the Church itself rather than a solitary representative that would be understandable. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/6 "2012-03-05T01:17:34Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Am I missing something here? Why would a Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church _not_ criticize a gay marriage plan? Well, maybe if it allowed him to marry people of the same sex who are under age 12. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/7 "2012-03-05T01:17:51Z")
Given that he’s a high-level official in a church that praises reason, his argument might have partaken of some. Yes, he is expected to criticize gay marriage. But not by excessive and illogical screeds, fallacious comparisons, unrestrained hyperbole, and arrant untruths. That makes him appear quite the cluck. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/8 "2012-03-05T02:52:38Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Am I missing something here? Why would a Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church _not_ criticize a gay marriage plan? It’s hardly remarkable. Now if you were to pit the Church itself rather than a solitary representative that would be understandable. Because he had better things to do? Does the Church stand for anything anymore, aside from going into hysterical fits over other people’s sex lives? You know, back in Catholic School we always said that the guys who talked about it the most were getting it the least. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/9 "2012-03-05T03:10:32Z")
Not to worry. 500 years from now, the RCC will apologize. You guys have no patience! ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/10 "2012-03-05T03:14:14Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > You know, back in Catholic School we always said that the guys who talked about it the most were getting it the least. So, you think the cardinal is getting married less than anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/11 "2012-03-05T04:26:22Z")
I would no more consider the RCC to be a moral authority than I would consider a child buggerer to be a moral authority. ---
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/12 "2012-03-05T05:05:53Z")
One more onto the pile, and hopefully a few more souls wake up and walk away. Soon, I forsee, there will be a blow, and the power of the Vatican will shrivel as its victims flock away. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/13 "2012-03-05T08:20:25Z")
I have said it before but it bears repeating, The Catholic church (in terms of its hierarchy) are a bunch of dicks. Grotesque in word and deed. Catholics _in general_ are just you and me, normal people. Most of them pay no attention to what their leaders say (e.g. contraception). The recent IPSOS/MORI poll results in the UK show this quite clearly. They choose their own morality and ethics and the world is much the better for it. This old duffer hasn’t grasped that fact yet but he’ll either change or, more likely, die. The next generation will then be even less willing to put up with his barely suppressed hatred. A comforting thought in the long run but of no help to those of us who wish it would all happen rather more quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/14 "2012-03-05T12:46:44Z")
This fucking twat was on the Today program this morning (BBC Radio 4). He was basically saying that his Catholic version of ‘marriage’ was the ultimate truth and that allowing gay partnerships to be called marriage was somehow violating not just _his_ morality but actually somehow _denying reality_ and it would inevitably lead to people ‘marrying’ animals or multiple partners? This guy’s a Catholic he really doesn’t get to tell the British what to do. From the BBC article > [@](#): > > Many church leaders believe gay marriage would represent a further significant step in marginalising traditional religious values in society. Jedi values? > [@Novelty Bobble](#): > > his barely suppressed hatred… I don’t think it was all that suppressed, certainly not well disguised. He clearly really wanted to say “All queers are blasphemers who will burn in hell!” But that would probably raise eyebrows, this being on y’know, the BBC, and not a Klan rally. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/15 "2012-03-05T13:06:56Z")
The unmarried nonce in the dress said it will “redefine marriage for the whole of society at the behest of a small minority of activists”. What are Catholic cardinals if not a small minority of activists who seek to define marriage for the whole of society? I’d rather we get to choose for ourselves. I choose allowing people who love each other to get married. At least Cameron is in favour, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/16 "2012-03-05T14:33:30Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > The unmarried nonce in the dress said it will “redefine marriage for the whole of society at the behest of a small minority of activists”. > > What are Catholic cardinals if not a small minority of activists who seek to define marriage for the whole of society? > > I’d rather we get to choose for ourselves. I choose allowing people who love each other to get married. > > At least Cameron is in favour, anyway. You probably need to read this well-balanced and objective article. [Dress-wearing 73 year-old unmarried celibate man vehemently supports thing he has no experience of](http://newsthump.com/2012/03/04/dress-wearing-73-year-old-unmarried-celibate-man-vehemently-supports-thing-he-has-no-experience-of/) > [@](#): > > O’Brien claimed that gay marriage would deprive children of a traditional upbringing which should include a mother, a father, and a shady old man who touches them in church. > > He told the Sunday Telegraph, “What’s important here is that we think of the children. No-one wants to see unhappy kids – particularly not priests. Crying kids are desperately unattractive.” ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/17 "2012-03-05T14:39:42Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I would no more consider the RCC to be a moral authority than I would consider a child buggerer to be a moral authority. …but you repeat yourself. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/18 "2012-03-05T14:53:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Cardinal O’Brien has become the latest of several senior clergy to denounce what he calls the “madness” of the government’s backing for marriage to include homosexual couples. > > He accused ministers of attempting to “redefine reality” and “dismantle the universally understood meaning of marriage”. > > SNIP > > Civil partnerships were introduced in 2005 to give same-sex couples the same legal rights as married couples, but the law does not allow such unions to be referred to as marriages. If I say gay, do you know what I’m talking about? Has the noun and its meaning changed over time or has it remained steadfastly for the last 2000 years the same with no alteration in meaning or timbre? If I am a man and I say that I married another man, do you misunderstand any part of that? It’s to the asinine point where those who are clinging to the last bastion of a definition to defend their bigotry end up just looking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/19 "2012-03-05T15:37:19Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > … That makes him appear quite the cluck. I’ve never heard that phrase before (is it an other-side-of-the-pond thing?) but I’m determined to work it into conversation at the nearest opportunity. And, yes, the RCC can go fuck itsel- wait. Hmmm. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756/20 "2012-03-05T16:25:12Z")
Unfortunately, the Scottish media seem to feel the need to contact the Cardinal (or his press office) for a comment on anything vaguely relating to sex. You can guess what enlightened thoughts the god-bothering fuckwit has. They also contact the Moderator of the Church of Scotland, but that’s a one-year elected position, and the opinions vary, but at least that office has included _gasp_ actual women and other people who have had sex with another adult. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-cardinal-criticises-gay-marriages-plan/614756.md?page=2)