# Catholic Church and Friends Big Funders of Anti Marriage Equality Campaigns **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230 "2012-11-16T19:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/1 "2012-11-16T19:52:00Z")
The Roman Catholic Church contributed $2 million to oppose marriage equality initiatives in the last election, and with related organizations like the Knights of Columbus, were responsible for about 2/3 of the funding opposing marriage equality in four states where such initiatives were on the ballot, according to[this article in the Huffington Post.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/catholic-church-2-million-defeat-marriage-equality_n_2140255.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular) So if you are Catholic, or a member of the Knights of Columbus, and you do not hate gay people, think hard when that collection plate is passed. The money in it is apparently not all going to the poor. And if you are gay, well, know your enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/2 "2012-11-16T20:22:47Z")
So, my money is going towards a cause that the Church has publicly said it is against and will fight because she thinks it’s a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/3 "2012-11-16T21:05:57Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > So, my money is going towards a cause that the Church has publicly said it is against and will fight because she thinks it’s a bad thing? Correct, if you are OK with funding the promotion of inequality and discrimination and do so openly then…fine, I guess. Many, many Catholics (I suspect the majority) are not OK with it. I’m no expert in charitable spending but I suspect there are sick and homeless people that could put that money to better use. Still, it gives us a clear view of what the church leadership priorities are. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/4 "2012-11-16T21:12:57Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Correct, if you are OK with funding the promotion of inequality and discrimination and do so openly then…fine, I guess. > Many, many Catholics (I suspect the majority) are not OK with it. > > I’m no expert in charitable spending but I suspect there are sick and homeless people that could put that money to better use. Still, it gives us a clear view of what the church leadership priorities are. Given that Catholic Charities USA, which is only one of a myriad of catholic charities has a budget of 4.67 billion dollars, I think we can safely say the priority is helping the poor and that preserving marriage is somewhere down the list. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/5 "2012-11-16T21:17:13Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Given that Catholic Charities USA, which is only one of a myriad of catholic charities has a budget of 4.67 billion dollars, I think we can safely say the priority is helping the poor and that preserving marriage is somewhere down the list. We are talking about the church leadership, not individual catholic charities. A rather important difference. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/6 "2012-11-16T22:10:41Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Correct, if you are OK with funding the promotion of inequality and discrimination and do so openly then…fine, I guess. > Many, many Catholics (I suspect the majority) are not OK with it. > > I’m no expert in charitable spending but I suspect there are sick and homeless people that could put that money to better use. Still, it gives us a clear view of what the church leadership priorities are. Since the official position of the Cahtolic Church is, has been, and will always be, to oppose same-sex marriage and that she considers it an important item where fighting the good fight is necessary. You say “anti marriae equality” I say “preserving a valuble societal institution”. I’m sure that if all charities worked on the street and didn’t use electricity or paid rent that money could go to the poor too. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/7 "2012-11-16T22:22:39Z")
In fairness, I’m much more likely to spend my time and money on gay rights causes than I am on feeding and clothing the homeless. Much as I despise the Church’s position on gay rights overall, I can’t really fault them for how they divide their charitable donations between enforcing their prejudices, and helping the genuinely destitute. They do way more good on the latter than I do, both in absolute dollars (obviously) and as a percentage of available charitable funds. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/8 "2012-11-16T22:23:05Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Since the official position of the Cahtolic Church is, has been, and will always be, to oppose same-sex marriage and that she considers it an important item where fighting the good fight is necessary. I know their position. It is at odds with the modern world and our collective move towards greater equality. Their stance will fail and they will have to get used to it. Meantime, equality is denied, discrimination is promoted. > [@](#): > > You say “anti marriae equality” I say “preserving a valuble societal institution” you are actually saying both those things too though I suspect you find the former statement a little too distasteful. It is, however, a perfectly accurate description of the catholic leadership’s stance. > [@](#): > > I’m sure that if all charities worked on the street and didn’t use electricity or paid rent that money could go to the poor too. Certainly there are some institutions that profess to care for the poor that could do without one of their myriad palaces or priceless works of art and put their wealth to better use. Yet they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/9 "2012-11-17T05:58:26Z")
I did not mean to suggest that there was some sort of equivalence between Catholic charities and money spent to oppose marriage equality, only that anyone contributing to the Catholic Church must now consider that their contributions are in part used to fund messages to persuade people outside the church that marriage equality is wrong, or to put it bluntly, funding the propaganda of bigotry and hate against gay people. The amount spent on charity is irrelevant to this point … after all, Mussolini made the trains run on time. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/10 "2012-11-17T14:27:48Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I say “preserving a valuble societal institution”. Would that “societal institution” be ignorance, fear and hatred? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/11 "2012-11-19T06:06:03Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I know their position. It is at odds with the modern world and our collective move towards greater equality. Their stance will fail and they will have to get used to it. Meantime, equality is denied, discrimination is promoted. > > you are actually saying both those things too though I suspect you find the former statement a little too distasteful. It is, however, a perfectly accurate description of the catholic leadership’s stance. > > Certainly there are some institutions that profess to care for the poor that could do without one of their myriad palaces or priceless works of art and put their wealth to better use. Yet they don’t. Being at odds with the world should never, on its own, bother a Christian. Not distasteful, simply wrong. Entrance fees for museums go for charitable work > [@panache45](#): > > Would that “societal institution” be ignorance, fear and hatred? Exactly. It’s right there on the brochure. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/12 "2012-11-19T07:28:45Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > You say “anti marriae equality” I say “preserving a valuble societal institution”. Oh really. I suppose you’d have said the same thing about segregation? Or denying women voting? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/13 "2012-11-19T08:44:51Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Being at odds with the world should never, on its own, bother a Christian. The catholic church has been at odds with many advances in humanity. Particularly science, medicine (womens reproductive rights in particular) and education. It is no great surprise that they continue to discriminate against women and homosexuals. > [@](#): > > Not distasteful, simply wrong . The catholic leadership are on record as being against the equal status of same-sex marriage. By what criteria are you judging “anti-marriage equality” as wrong? > [@](#): > > Entrance fees for museums go for charitable work But last I heard the church has bulging coffers of cash that seem to remain firmly within the temples. The finery of the palaces and cathedrals is not diminished, the bishops and popes accommodations are not reduced to hovels. Money that could be in the hands of the deserving is not. Surely the church should be turning themselves inside out to understand whether liquidating their assets does more more for the needy than merely using said assets as side-shows. I see no such thinking at work. Rather handily the Church manages to keep their untold wealth and splendour and use your “admission fee” defence. If their holy book is truly gospel for them, then how can a Bishop sleep at night surrounded by palace walls and half a dozen Goya’s? The hypocrisy must scream at them constantly. > [@](#): > > Exactly. It’s right there on the brochure. Sure, and you are comfortable with that. We understand all this and the rather more understanding and humanitarian portion of humanity take a very different view. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/14 "2012-11-19T15:55:33Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I did not mean to suggest that there was some sort of equivalence between Catholic charities and money spent to oppose marriage equality, only that anyone contributing to the Catholic Church must now consider that their contributions are in part used to fund messages to persuade people outside the church that marriage equality is wrong, or to put it bluntly, funding the propaganda of bigotry and hate against gay people. The amount spent on charity is irrelevant to this point … after all, Mussolini made the trains run on time. Your OP states that people who give to the Catholic Church should not do so because some of it might go toward keeping the government from changing the definition of marriage. Even though 99.99% of what is collected does not do so and the amount spent on the poor and the destitute is several thousand times the amount spent on political advertising. I guess if a few million poor people have to suffer so a gay person can get “married” that is a small price to pay. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/15 "2012-11-19T16:31:45Z")
Oh, bosh. It’s not like the Catholics are the only organization on the planet helping poor people. There are any number of charities to whom I can give my money who will spend it on what I want it spent on (i.e., feeding/clothing/sheltering/assisting the poor and homeless). No need to give it to a group that will spend part of it promoting bigotry and attempting to have their beliefs enshrined as law. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/16 "2012-11-19T16:55:43Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > You say “anti marriae equality” I say “preserving a valuble societal institution”. My wife and I are both atheists. We won’t be having children. We’re married. You do \*not \*get to lay claim to our marriage. The Catholic church didn’t invent marriage. _It’s not yours to preserve._ ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/17 "2012-11-19T17:02:18Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Given that Catholic Charities USA, which is only one of a myriad of catholic charities has a budget of 4.67 billion dollars, I think we can safely say the priority is helping the poor and that preserving marriage is somewhere down the list. [In recent years 62% of the budget for “Catholic Charities” came from the government, not Catholic charity.](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/us/for-bishops-a-battle-over-whose-rights-prevail.html) (There _used_ to be a nice document on the Catholic Charities website that showed where all their funding came from, but oddly enough, it doesn’t seem to be there anymore.) ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/18 "2012-11-19T17:19:06Z")
(Here’s a [Google cache of “Catholic Charities at a Glance 2010”](https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:79HcBD64qUkJ:www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/document.doc?id%3D2853+http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/document.doc?id%3D2853&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShDfSOOA2mC6yAq79vw3-p4NVKsqLZpmgCujv3bNn7n9gYUihJoTMG2QqTJ8J5QI4A076gjDGL_aVR0ub4-GOdwfb9vyUBsMWwfqJrBgfHdRIqbsxU4PGUrfi8udkXoMDftNHoo&sig=AHIEtbTQLl7TfDZ7pvo6GUyMLCdciDw-KA). Note down there on page 2, on the “Total Income” pie chart: Government Revenue, 62%.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/19 "2012-11-19T17:48:17Z")
Since we already have (and had) a million threads to discuss SSM itself, can we stay on tpoic here and not debate **AdG** ’s views? **redtail23** encapsulated my views rather well. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230/20 "2012-11-19T18:07:46Z")
So, did the Catholic Church spend government money on influencing a government decision? And whatever happened to the separation of church and state, on both counts? Why on earth is the government supporting a catholic charity, instead of a neutral charities like the Red Cross? And why is the CC spending money on influencing a governement decision? I wouldn’t mind Catholic interest groups doing so, but the Church _itself_? Can’t somebody sue both of them to see if this is even legal? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-and-friends-big-funders-of-anti-marriage-equality-campaigns/641230.md?page=2)