# Catholic Church Gives Pedo Preists A Second Helping ... er, Chance ... in South America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579 "2015-09-17T18:13:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/201 "2015-09-30T12:08:04Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Well, of particular note is Clark v. United States where Justice Cardozo opined: “There is a privilege protecting communications between attorney and client. The privilege takes flight if the relation is abused. A client who consults an attorney for advice that will serve him in the commission of a fraud will have no help from the law. He must let the truth be told.” > > Would that it worked the same for other privileges. There is no privilege for future crime – the crime hasn’t happened yet. There is no breaking of privilege for revealing past crime, which would triggering “mandated reporters” to report the crime. > [@](#): > > Really? Really now? Because I’d have to say that the very existence of this thread where the OP links to an article that gives five examples of the problem not being solved kinda negates your point. We’re not talking about priests who hid the truth through confession. They outright confessed to molestation, their churches had paid out the victims, and the law still wasn’t involved! The priests just moved to another parish. > How is that dealing with the issue? You mischaracterize the cases in the OP. And in the case where your characterization is correct, the bishop who broke the rules was asked for his resignation, which he gave. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/202 "2015-09-30T12:24:01Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > We’re not talking about priests who hid the truth through confession. They outright confessed to molestation, their churches had paid out the victims, and the law still wasn’t involved! The priests just moved to another parish. One of the five is Fr. Fredy Montero. The police were notified, and he was questioned but not charged. He did not admit wrongdoing and no settlement was paid. Why did you say otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/203 "2015-09-30T12:24:48Z")
How did confession get into this mix in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/204 "2015-09-30T12:43:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > How did confession get into this mix in the first place? From the discussion of mandated reporting above. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/205 "2015-09-30T13:02:19Z")
I gather the analogy is dependent on the bishop learning of the molestation specifically and solely through confession and not, for example, through the complaints of parents whose children have been assaulted. In which case I reiterate my earlier question about what should happen if the confession is given to one’s employer. Even if there is no obligation to report, is there some duty to not further enable? What’s the “spiritual good” angle involved? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/206 "2015-09-30T18:20:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I gather the analogy is dependent on the bishop learning of the molestation specifically and solely through confession and not, for example, through the complaints of parents whose children have been assaulted. > > In which case I reiterate my earlier question about what should happen if the confession is given to one’s employer. Even if there is no obligation to report, is there some duty to not further enable? What’s the “spiritual good” angle involved? There is no privilege outside of confession. Inside, the privilege is absolute: the priest can’t reveal, directly or indirectly, anything he learns in confession. The spiritual good is allowing a person to unburden his soul and be guided to repentance and acceptance of responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/207 "2015-09-30T18:29:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There is no privilege outside of confession. Inside, the privilege is absolute: the priest can’t reveal, directly or indirectly, anything he learns in confession. Well he could. It’s not like God or Hell exists to punish him. He might lose his cushy job and awesome outfits. > [@](#): > > The spiritual good is allowing a person to unburden his soul and be guided to repentance and acceptance of responsibility. Spiritual good isn’t a real thing. Making a serial rapist feel better about his crimes is hardly a laudable goal. The kids he violated still feel just as bad. If anything, helping a rapist assuage his guilt is actually evil. I’m glad that his soul (which also doesn’t exist) is burdened. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/208 "2015-09-30T18:32:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > repentance and acceptance of responsibility If only that applied to the RCC itself. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/209 "2015-09-30T18:47:15Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Well he could. It’s not like God or Hell exists to punish him. He might lose his cushy job and awesome outfits. > > Spiritual good isn’t a real thing. Making a serial rapist feel better about his crimes is hardly a laudable goal. The kids he violated still feel just as bad. Making the rapist repent and confess his misdeeds to the authorities is a temporal good. Society has passed laws protecting spiritual good. Why should anyone care about your contrary view? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/210 "2015-09-30T18:53:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There is no privilege outside of confession. Inside, the privilege is absolute: the priest can’t reveal, directly or indirectly, anything he learns in confession. > > The spiritual good is allowing a person to unburden his soul and be guided to repentance and acceptance of responsibility. Oh, I wasn’t asking about the spiritual good of confession, but about the spiritual good of molestation-enabling. I’ll accept that spiritual advisors can be included in the list of legal confidants, but in any case once the confidant is in possesion of the information and has the power to prevent a re-occurrence (and can do so without explicitly breaking confidence), I don’t have a problem with there being a moral duty attached, and I’m only a mere atheist, presumably not as plugged into the Great Moral Standard That Is God And His Son, Jesus The Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/211 "2015-09-30T18:57:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There is no privilege outside of confession. Inside, the privilege is absolute: the priest can’t reveal, directly or indirectly, anything he learns in confession. Are you discussing temporal or canon law here? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/212 "2015-09-30T19:06:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Society has passed laws protecting spiritual good. I’m not certain this is accurate. American society has laws preventing or restricting government involvement in what an individual CALLS pursuit of “spiritual good” (i.e. the exercise of religion) but as far as I know, there’s no explicit legal recognition that “spiritual good” actually exists. If if did exist in some independently definable measurable way, I’m sure you could tell me why the RCC has spiritual good in its rituals and worshipping at an altar to Zeus does not, as I earlier requested. Perhaps you recognize that the sincere worship of Zeus offers as much spiritual good as attending Mass, or at least that you cannot demonstrate why it does not. As far as I know, the U.S. government views both practices as equally valid, or at least they SHOULD, to be in compliance with the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/213 "2015-09-30T19:10:14Z")
When a boy comes up to a priest and says that another priest fucked him up the ass, which law(judicial, or canon) should the former priest be more concerned about, and which law’s representative should he be contacting(judicial, or canon)? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/214 "2015-09-30T19:14:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Are you discussing temporal or canon law here? Canon law. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/215 "2015-09-30T19:22:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m not certain this is accurate. American society has laws preventing or restricting government involvement in what an individual CALLS pursuit of “spiritual good” (i.e. the exercise of religion) but as far as I know, there’s no explicit legal recognition that “spiritual good” actually exists. Yes. I argue that a reasonable description of those laws, laws that protect an individual’s pursuit of spiritual good, can be fairly described as a recognition of the existence of spiritual good. > [@](#): > > If if did exist in some independently definable measurable way, I’m sure you could tell me why the RCC has spiritual good in its rituals and worshipping at an altar to Zeus does not, as I earlier requested. I don’t claim that no spiritual good is possible from the Zeus altar. It is not a good for me, but I don’t claim my experience is generalized to the world. > [@](#): > > Perhaps you recognize that the sincere worship of Zeus offers as much spiritual good as attending Mass, or at least that you cannot demonstrate why it does not. As far as I know, the U.S. government views both practices as equally valid, or at least they SHOULD, to be in compliance with the Constitution. Yup. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/216 "2015-09-30T19:38:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Making the rapist repent and confess his misdeeds to the authorities is a temporal good. If the rapist goes to jail, or is forward unable to rape kids, yes. > [@](#): > > Society has passed laws protecting spiritual good. So? Like you, most of American society is delusional about the existence of the spiritual. In a hundred years you’ll be clucked at, and your grandchildren will probably be as non-religious as I am. > [@](#): > > Why should anyone care about your contrary view? I’m not sure they should. Being right doesn’t require a headcount. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/217 "2015-09-30T19:42:02Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If the rapist goes to jail, or is forward unable to rape kids, yes. > > So? Like you, most of American society is delusional about the existence of the spiritual. In a hundred years you’ll be clucked at, and your grandchildren will probably be as non-religious as I am. I disagree. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure they should. Being right doesn’t require a headcount. You’re wrong about what matters: the real, verifiable existence of law that does what I said. If you want to console yourself that you’re actually correct, and society is wrong, go right on. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/218 "2015-09-30T19:48:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I disagree. Of course you do. Choice in what to think was taken from you as a child. You’re a wind-up toy that marches in lock-step with what your attackers told you to think. > [@](#): > > You’re wrong about what matters: the real, verifiable existence of law that does what I said. If you want to console yourself that you’re actually correct, and society is wrong, go right on. The law enshrined slavery. The law enshrined racism. The law enshrined prohibitions on same-sex marriage. The law follows what the culture demands. And society improves one full graveyard at a time. When the GOP base starts dying off, the dynamics will change. You’re a dodo in a hungry sailor’s world. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/219 "2015-09-30T19:59:01Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Of course you do. Choice in what to think was taken from you as a child. You’re a wind-up toy that marches in lock-step with what your attackers told you to think. No. I went through a period in which I identified as an agnostic. I believe what I believe with full advertance of my will. > [@](#): > > The law enshrined slavery. The law enshrined racism. The law enshrined prohibitions on same-sex marriage. > > The law follows what the culture demands. And society improves one full graveyard at a time. When the GOP base starts dying off, the dynamics will change. You’re a dodo in a hungry sailor’s world. The problem with this argument is that anyone can level it against anything. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579/220 "2015-09-30T20:12:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. I went through a period in which I identified as an agnostic. I believe what I believe with full advertance of my will. Of course that’s what they’d want you to say. 😃 The self-delusion that catalyzed your relapse into the fold, certainly had nothing to do with the initial conditioning. :rolleyes: You’re a victim, Bricker. On some level I pity you. Then, I find it funny you’re wasting your life on this silly shit and I giggle. > [@](#): > > The problem with this argument is that anyone can level it against anything. As a species we are moving in the direction of the reduction of suffering. For all the world’s problems, this is the best time in history to be alive. The marginalization of religion has a lot to do with that. It’ll continue. Each generation is less pious than the last, and soon enough Jesus will be a silly myth in a history book to most people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-gives-pedo-preists-a-second-helping-er-chance-in-south-america/731579.md?page=12)