# Catholic Church Question: Canonization and the BVM **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 23, 2017, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027 "2017-09-23T10:21:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/1 "2017-09-23T10:21:06Z")
BVM being the Blessed Virgin Mary, for the uninitiated. I grew up under the impression that Mary, the Mother of Jesus, was not actually canonized a saint by the Catholic Church, and this was the reason she is not referred to as “Saint Mary” (although, to be sure, there is no shortage of Saint Marys in the Catholic Communion). It’s a long time coming, but it has finally occurred to me to question my long-held assumption and ask: was she canonized? If so, why DON’T we refer to her as “Saint Mary?” And if not, WHY not? Is canonization not good enough for her? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/2 "2017-09-23T10:30:30Z")
Missed the edit window: Also, if she WAS canonized, when, and by which Pope? ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/3 "2017-09-23T10:33:17Z")
Earlier thread of mine: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=138691&highlight=saint](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=138691&highlight=saint) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/4 "2017-09-23T10:55:20Z")
Ah. I seem to have missed that one. Thank you very much; that was quite informative. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/5 "2017-09-23T12:02:20Z")
Yes, Mary is regarded as a saint. She’s usually referred to in other ways (like “The Blessed Virgin Mary” or “Our Lady of \_\_\_\_\_”) not because her status is in some way less, but because it’s more: Catholics regard her as being the most important person in the Universe, other than the members of the Trinity. She was never formally canonized simply because none of the early saints were formally canonized. It took a while for the formal process to be established. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/6 "2017-09-23T21:44:12Z")
I’ve never heard many references to Saint Damien of Molokai, even though he’s a saint now. It’s always Father Damien. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/7 "2017-09-23T21:47:22Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I’ve never heard many references to Saint Damien of Molokai, even though he’s a saint now. It’s always Father Damien. And I imagine that Mother Theresa is going to be “Mother” for a long time, too, despite her rush canonization. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/8 "2017-09-23T22:27:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > BVM being the Blessed Virgin Mary, for the uninitiated. > > I grew up under the impression that Mary, the Mother of Jesus, was not actually canonized a saint by the Catholic Church, and this was the reason she is not referred to as “Saint Mary” News to me – we went to St. Mary’s for middle school and attended church at St. Mary’s. And yes, it referred to The Blessed Mother. St. Joseph’s was the rich parish uptown. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/9 "2017-09-23T22:57:29Z")
Yeah, a number of saints are habitually called by some other title. The Venerable Bede is another one. Though I am increasingly seeing “Theresa of Calcutta”, with or without the “Saint” in front, in place of “Mother Theresa”. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/10 "2017-09-23T23:25:46Z")
I’m taking a guess here, but maybe she was never declared a saint because according to Catholic doctrine, if my memory is correct, Mary is the only human taken into heaven body and soul. I think that’s what the feast of the Assumption is all about. It commemorates Mary being assumed body and soul into heaven. She didn’t need to go through the process, she had a free pass. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/11 "2017-09-24T03:12:55Z")
There’s no point in trying to explain why something is true, without it first actually being true. Mary was declared a saint a very long time ago. She also wasn’t the only, or even first, Biblical figure to be assumed bodily into Heaven. Aside from the obvious example of Jesus, several Old Testament prophets also got the same treatment. And the Assumption of Mary isn’t even biblical, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/12 "2017-09-24T17:58:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There’s no point in trying to explain why something is true, without it first actually being true. Mary was declared a saint a very long time ago. > > She also wasn’t the only, or even first, Biblical figure to be assumed bodily into Heaven. Aside from the obvious example of Jesus, several Old Testament prophets also got the same treatment. And the Assumption of Mary isn’t even biblical, for that matter. I wasn’t including Jesus in my account, I took that as obvious, since the church teaches he is God. I don’t understand what you are conveying when you say, “And the Assumption isn’t even biblical…” Are you saying because there isn’t a record of it in the Bible it didn’t happen? I think lots of events occurred that weren’t in the Bible and many didn’t occur that may be, based on the memory and storytelling of the authors. To get back to part of the OP’s question though, the church didn’t have a formal process for sainthood until much later, around the 12th or 13th century. I think prior to that, people were just proclaimed saints if they lived a good, holy life, so based on that, then Mary would, along with many other titles she has, also be a saint. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-church-question-canonization-and-the-bvm/797027/13 "2017-09-25T03:09:04Z")
I also suspect that, if the question arose, the Catholic Church would rule that she didn’t need to be canonized by the Pope, as God had very clearly indicated His opinion in the matter.