Catholic Dopers >age 50- does the term "pagan babies" ring a bell?

Haven’t read any Left Behind books; don’t expect to. Still, an unhealthy curiosity has me wondering how Jenkins and LaHaye fan-wanked away the part that limited the head count of the Raptured to one kilogross…

There are many varying interpretations and disputes, but the mainline thinking is that the Church (the Bible-believing saved people) is raptured first before the tribulation. Then as the four angels are about to unleash the winds to destroy the earth, another angel shows up with the sixth seal and tells them to wait. At this point 144,000 Jews (12,000 from each of twelve tribes) are marked These Jews will preach the Gospel during the time of tribulation in an attempt to save the remaining souls on earth. The 144,000 will be the first fruits of those saved during the tribulation. They will convert countless multitudes who will be saved after them.

Jehova’s Witnesses, who most Evangelical Christians believe are non-Biblical, believe that exactly 144,000 will ascend to heaven.

Never encountered the term. We used the word “Philistines.”

I’m not even Catholic but I recall the phrase so I presume it was referenced in books and movies.

I’m 46, went to Catholic grade school in Philadelphia from '73-81, and we absolutely collected money to save pagan babies. Little box at the front of the room where you could put your spare change. This was separate from the UNICEF orange box collection, which was only at Halloween.

IANAC either, but I read a book by the late/great Elmore Leonard titled Pagan Babies. The initial reason I started reading this thread was because I thought it somehow involved the book…

I’m not 50+ but I’m familiar with the term pagan babies. Of course, I always heard it as “Hey, the church has gotten better! At least we’re not trying to ransom pagan babies anymore,” and the like.

[QUOTE=What I want to know is: When the Catholic Church shut down Limbo (remember Limbo?), what happened to all the souls we were always supposed to have been “offering up” prayers for?[/QUOTE]

I was told that babies who died before they could be baptized went to “limbo.”. I don’t remember anything about being able to pray them out of there. That always made me sad.:frowning: I’m no longer Catholic either.

I’m still confused about the offering up thing, and I’m almost 50. When women would have babies, they would say they were “offering” up their labor pains. I thought that meant they were doing it for themselves, as penance for future sins they might commit?

I was in Catholic grade school in New England in the early to mid 60s, but I don’t remember anything about “Pagan Babies”. We were all given envelopes to hold our donations for the collection basket at Sunday mass, though. Remember the baskets with the long handles that men held out in front of everyone? Sometimes they’d shake in front of you if you didn’t put anything in.

while the term “offering up” might be used, an offering is more likely the donating of money or property.

voluntarily enduring discomfort or pain would be a sacrifice.

good for past unforgiven sins as well.

As you’ve already read by now in subsequent posts, I was confusing Limbo with Purgatory in that regard. Shit- it’s probably a venial sin® to get the mumbo-jumbo’s mixed up. Another weekend in Purgatory added to my sentence.

While that may be so, when we were constantly exhorted to “offer it up” in my 50’s Catholic School, it was referring to pain, discomfort, hardship. The to whom, how, and why was never explained.

The term “offer up” has Biblical roots and does not necessarily refer to money or property.

Hebrews 5:7 “In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety.”

Hebrews 7:27 “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Yes, but the term “offer it up” was thrown around a lot, as if you didn’t want your pain or suffering to go to waste, but to count for something. It fed into a lot of martytr complexes.

ROTFL!!! As someone who has lived through this, I feel justified in getting comedic relief from it. Maybe the Pope can explain it.

i think terms might have roots and meanings that have sophistication.

in trying to establish belief and practice in kids, then thing are simplified. things are distinguished to encourage multiple actions.

Ah, yes “Pagan Babies”. As others have remarked, it’s been used in titles of books, and has shown up in lots of recollections of Catholic School upbringings in the 50s and 60s.
We had little origami0-like boxes into which we put change during Lent (which would otherwise have gone to purchasing candy and the like), so we could save up enough for a Pagan Baby.
When I thought back on it, and tried to explain to non-Catholic folk, I used to say that We Traded in Human Flesh, Buying and Selling Pagan Babies.
They never did tell us exactly what it went for. I assumed later that it all got pooled for some general mission fund, whatever they told us.

I was born in 68 in Germany and raised (quite unsuccessfully) Catholic; yes, we did make little paper boxes (shaped like chapels or creches) for collecting our Pfennige for the “Heidenkinder” (pagan babies), though this might’ve been only the preferred term of the older generations like my grandparents. We also heard gruesome stories and cared a lot about the “Diaspora”. When I was little, I imagined it to be some horrid faraway place, until I learned that the neighboring town where my cousins lived (and which was mostly Lutheran) was in that infernal realm too! The horror! But then, it looked exactly like our town and the people behaved the same.

Yes, Catholicism can be confusing (not only) for a child…

The organization that seems to fit what people in this thread are remembering is the Association of the Holy Childhood (alternatively, the Holy Child Association). The idea was that a Catholic child would offer a certain amount of money and would then get to choose the baptismal name of a formerly non-Christian child. Some information and imagery can be found here:
http://catholicunderthehood.com/2011/10/15/270-pagan-babies-for-christ/

It appears that the Holy Child Association still exists, although it’s now called the Missionary Childhood Association.

I think you can offer things up for any reason.

For example, you might offer it up in reparation for sins against the Immaculate Heart of Mary, or for the Poor Souls, or for sins against Jesus, or for yourself.