# Catholic priest inadvertently changed one word during baptism rites for decades, and apparently it's a BIG PROBLEM **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 15, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494 "2022-02-15T02:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/41 "2022-02-15T17:02:57Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Can your cat baptize you, with its integrated baptizing instrument? Yes, but shampoo the carpet immediately afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/42 "2022-02-15T17:04:23Z")
I mentioned this in the pit thread as well, and wonder if this is the doctrinal issue at stake: Apparently, as part of their vows and duties and whatever they promise when they become a priest is the agreement to be the personal (and individual) intermediary between lay people and God. It is supposed to be a very personal responsibility of the individual priest. A monk may be holy but he is only responsible for his own soul. The priest is, in a sense, responsible for the well-being of other peoples’ souls. I read this in a Brother Cadfael novel, so it must be true. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/43 "2022-02-15T17:05:41Z")
God doesn’t want to send all those unbaptized babies to hell, but in his official capacity he finds it necessary to do things that he personally finds reprehensible. He does feel bad about it though, so there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/44 "2022-02-15T17:11:37Z")
My impression from briefly skimming the responsa is that the priest, at that moment, is considered to be a stand-in for Jesus. So if I’m understanding this correctly, which I may very well not be, the priest has to SAY “I”, but he’s not actually referring to himself by that pronoun, but to Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/45 "2022-02-15T17:16:04Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > My impression from briefly skimming the responsa is that the priest, at that moment, is considered to be a stand-in for Jesus. I’m a little fuzzy on the details from my upbringing, but I think they may for a split second also be made of bread. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/46 "2022-02-15T17:27:05Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > he’s not actually referring to himself by that pronoun, but to Jesus Then surely the [the inscrutable mystery of the Holy Trinity](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwYczl2yOh8) implies that singular or plural pronouns are equally applicable. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/47 "2022-02-15T17:55:09Z")
Well, the Church _does_ believe that God may sometimes choose to be more merciful than the letter of the law would dictate, so those parents can take comfort in the thought that MAYBE their babies didn’t go to hell. You certainly wouldn’t want to take any chances, though. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/48 "2022-02-15T20:31:41Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I mean, who wouldn’t want to be part of a group where your special designations are dictated by wether or not the important man said the correct magic word. This. As if the whole idea wasn’t ridiculous enough to begin with, the Catholic Church has just increased the absurdity by an order of magnitude. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/49 "2022-02-15T21:24:59Z")
Can’t this all be fixed with a Papal Bull? Or maybe the Diocese could set up a website to certify one’s baptism. For a small fee, they could declare your baptism legit. It would be a Paypal Bull. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/50 "2022-02-15T21:27:22Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > It would be a Paypal Bull. Thread 🏆 ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/51 "2022-02-15T21:33:45Z")
Makes me wonder exactly what Pope John XXIII meant by this quote. _See everything, overlook a great deal, correct a little._ I think the current church may have mixed up what goes in what category. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/52 "2022-02-15T22:21:00Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > If you’re already baptized, you can rebaptize yourself, I guess? The link says that even a non-Christian can perform a baptism when the person’s life is in danger, as long as they do so with the proper intent. I’m not sure how much danger is sufficient. [Canon 861](http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P2V.HTM) says this: > §2 If the ordinary minister is absent or impeded, a catechist or some other person deputed to this office by the local Ordinary, may lawfully confer baptism; indeed, in a case of necessity, any person who has the requisite intention may do so. Pastors of souls, especially parish priests, are to be diligent in ensuring that Christ’s faithful are taught the correct way to baptise. So it’s really just “necessity.” And they don’t use any intensifiers like “urgent” or “grave,” so it sounds to me like this is just a middle-of-the-road need, not necessarily being on your deathbed. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/53 "2022-02-15T22:45:46Z")
How odd. And, the I/we guy certainly had the right intent, but in his case, that wasn’t sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/54 "2022-02-15T22:58:50Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I wonder how many more of these lurk in the wings. I mean, suppose some priest made that same error 300 years ago, and it was never noticed… Yes, exactly. Just how many, “Blessed are the cheesemakers…” things are out there anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/55 "2022-02-15T23:08:47Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > How odd. And, the I/we guy certainly had the right intent, but in his case, that wasn’t sufficient. I think the issue is actually that he _didn’t_ have the right intent. He was deliberately changing the pronoun to make some theological point that the church disagrees with. If he’d screwed it up because he was just bad at Latin, I don’t think there would be a problem. Like, if he’d stated before each baptism that when he said, “Holy Ghost,” he specifically meant “Casper the Friendly Ghost,” then performed the actual ritual flawlessly, the church would probably still have been, “No, those don’t count.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/56 "2022-02-15T23:14:17Z")
Can’t they just transfer the priest to another part of the country, not tell the new parish anything about it and then cover up everything? Seems like there is precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/57 "2022-02-15T23:17:44Z")
No, the issue isn’t intent, it’s that, although they’re very liberal about who can perform the rite in a pinch, they insist on this very specific wording. I think Miller is right that they might not have made such a big deal about it if some people weren’t doing this to make a point. Oddly, though, everyone seems to agree that this particular priest wasn’t trying to make any point, he just…somehow got through priest school without realizing he was doing it wrong? It appears English isn’t his native language, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/58 "2022-02-15T23:18:10Z")
Oh, they don’t let you off that easy in cases of _serious_ wrongdoing like this. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/59 "2022-02-15T23:28:31Z")
Regardless of the intent of the priest, the Church now says the baptisms were invalid. OK, stipulated. A ghastly error, right? Thousands of unbaptized people walking around, just waiting to meet their deaths and miss out on Heaven, I guess, through no fault of their own. So here’s my question: Was there **never** , in all these years, a bishop, or another priest, or even a knowledgeable layperson present at any of these baptisms, who might have drawn attention to the error before thousands more were racked up? Seriously. The Church evidently believes people’s souls are actually in peril now – not a minor error at all – but for decades, nobody noticed? More like: nobody bothered to notice. The Church is claiming it’s really important NOW, but that’s given the lie by the fact that it obviously hadn’t been particularly important BEFORE now. Anyone could have noticed this and fixed it years ago, if it actually mattered. It’s not solely the fault of one priest. Any bishop or priest who witnessed any of these invalid baptisms should immediately resign as well. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/60 "2022-02-15T23:32:45Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > The Church evidently believes people’s souls are actually in peril now… Is that what the church actually believes in this case, though? I think the important part of wanting people to be rebaptized is probably more about enforcing theological orthodoxy. The point isn’t, “We have to do this, or people will go to hell,” it’s “We have to do this, or people will think this was an acceptable way to perform a baptism.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494.md?page=4)