# Catholic priest inadvertently changed one word during baptism rites for decades, and apparently it's a BIG PROBLEM **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 15, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494 "2022-02-15T02:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/61 "2022-02-15T23:36:32Z")
Well, that mitigates the issue, if so, in terms of spiritual magnitude. But it makes forcing people to be re-baptized sillier than it would have been if their souls were actually imperiled. They’re kind of showing their hand, here, either way. Either it matters or it doesn’t. If it’s just a bureaucratic error, they should fix it down at Central and leave the poor parishioners alone. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/62 "2022-02-15T23:38:04Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > Was there **never** , in all these years, a bishop, or another priest, or even a knowledgeable layperson present at any of these baptisms, who might have drawn attention to the error before thousands more were racked up? Probably not - I’ve never been at a infant/child baptism\* where there was a second priest/bishop/deacon present. And I’m certain the average layperson wouldn’t have known it was a mistake - Which is most of the rituals - most parishes I know have them at least twice a month. Older children and adults are baptized once a year at the Easter Vigil, where there may be multiple priests/deacons present. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/63 "2022-02-15T23:41:42Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > Thousands of unbaptized people walking around, just waiting to meet their deaths and miss out on Heaven, I guess, through no fault of their own. So here’s my question: The FAQ from Phoenix contains this: > It is important to note that, while God instituted the sacraments for us, He is not bound by them. Though they are our surest access to grace, God can grant His grace in ways known only to Him. According to St. Thomas Aquinas, God has bound Himself **to** the sacraments, but He is not bound **by** the sacraments _._ This means that while we can be certain that God always works through the sacraments when they are properly conferred by the minister, God is not bound by the sacraments in that He can and does extend His grace in whatever measure and manner He wills. We can be assured that all who approached God, our Father, in good faith to receive the sacraments did not walk away empty-handed. In other words, the church is not claiming to know whether rebaptism is necessary - in fact, they’re outright saying they don’t know. The re-baptism is sort of “just in case”. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/64 "2022-02-15T23:42:06Z")
Interesting article on the subject, giving some more background and exploring the logic, or lack thereof. > **[Invalid Baptism? - Liturgy](https://liturgy.co.nz/invalid-baptism?fbclid=IwAR207TPEIokGGl7hJfrVrhOAS3JZ6Fn-X9QXw1-gxAj_UR5TVOVGlPwwTIg)** > > The recent decision that more than a quarter of a century of a priest's baptisms are invalid is not just legalism gone egregious, it can be challenged as mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/65 "2022-02-15T23:45:49Z")
It just occurred to me that this reminds me of the time the Chief Justice made a slight flub in the wording when he swore in President Obama, so they did it a second time just to prevent any constitutional questions. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/66 "2022-02-16T00:19:23Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Which makes me wonder further–can I baptize myself? That’s actually how it was done in New Testament times. There were witnesses, but the person being baptized did the dunking all by himself. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/67 "2022-02-16T03:19:23Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Also Christians: God doesn’t know the difference between ‘we’ and ‘I’. Is this the same God who tends to refer to Himself with first person plural pronouns? Sometimes? > [@Genesis 1:26 KJV](#): > > 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: . . . But: > [@Genesis 1:29 KJV](#): > > 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, . . . Make up your inerrant Mind! ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/68 "2022-02-18T13:25:11Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > This is the Catholic Church, the highest moral authority. One of their priests has erred, so their only course of action is full and frank disclosure, immediate action to remove the priest and require his resignation, acknowledgement of the harm he has done with measures to do whatever they can to assist and compensate the innocent victims, while ensuring that such a thing can never happen again. Is there some reason that you were expecting something else? The RCC has no moral authority. They have forfeited it in their zeal to cover up the abuse scandal. I, for one, would be delighted to find that my RCC Baptism in infancy was invalid. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/69 "2022-02-18T13:42:04Z")
> [@LH75](#): > > The RCC has no moral authority. They have forfeited it in their zeal to cover up the abuse scandal. I, for one, would be delighted to find that my RCC Baptism in infancy was invalid. Your sarcasm detector needs calibration. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/70 "2022-02-18T14:20:54Z")
@Mighty_Mouse True enough. I admit that it is a hot button issue with me. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21825_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/71 "2022-02-18T15:01:22Z")
This brought to mind a new story I heard in the early 80s - I don’t remember all the specifics, so I can’t provide a cite, so you’ll just have to believe me… As I recall, a Jewish woman married a Catholic man, and they had a child. The Catholic grandmother, worried for the baby’s soul, had him secretly baptized against the mother’s wishes. When the mother found out, much ruckus was raised, and a bishop or cardinal or someone decided that they’d just annul the baptism. I grew up in a very Catholic family - heck, my dad was even in a Jesuit seminary for a short time before deciding he really didn’t want to be a priest. (He joined the Marines instead…) Which is to say, from what I’d been taught, once you were baptized, there was no take-back or do-over. You were done and that was that. So annulment of baptism pretty much made my head explode. And within a couple of years, I lapsed. Haven’t been back since except for a couple of weddings and funerals. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/72 "2022-02-18T15:06:59Z")
^ Yeah, that’s the way I understood it. There used to be a phrase (I don’t know where it originated): “Give us your children and they’re ours forever.” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/73 "2022-02-18T15:31:05Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > bishop or cardinal or someone decided that they’d just annul the baptism. I wonder how much grandma had to pay for that. Typical that the church would punish thousands of their “flock” because they didn’t train or monitor their priest correctly. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/74 "2022-02-18T15:42:09Z")
But that phrase doesn’t refer to baptism. It refers to a Catholic education. _Some claim the maxim comes from St. Ignatius Loyola himself. Yet the idea later proclaimed by the Jesuits is very old — give us a child till he’s 7 and we’ll have him for life._ ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/75 "2022-02-18T15:44:41Z")
Ignorance fought, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/76 "2022-02-18T15:45:59Z")
Benefits of a semi-Catholic education! ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/77 "2022-02-18T15:50:16Z")
The only thing that surprises me about your story is that grandma was even able to get the baby baptized. Unless she did it herself. Canon law requires at least one parent to consent and reason to at least hope that the child will be brought up Catholic , neither of which seems to be the case in your story. Whether the lack of consent makes the baptism invalid or simply illicit, I don’t know , but it would not surprise me if it was invalid. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/78 "2022-02-18T16:10:05Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > > > Which makes me wonder further–can I baptize myself? > > That’s actually how it was done in New Testament times. There were witnesses, but the person being baptized did the dunking all by himself. Cannonball into the River Jordan! (Another example of why I was born too late…) . When our kid was baptized, the pastor mispronounced his name (instead of an Americanized “Ricardo”, he went for the aren’t-I-multilingual _“Ree-carr-do”)._ So of course, we occasionally call him that just because it annoys him. Even going by Rick didn’t help, now we can call him _“Reeeck…”_ “Not funny… and NOT my name.” “Ahh, but it IS… in the eyes of the heavenly gathering of angels that were fluttering around you at your baptism.” (Is it any wonder the kid’s a Buddhist now? A small price to pay for a good joke.) ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/79 "2022-02-18T16:15:37Z")
It looks like there can be [multi-generational consequences](https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/arizona-catholic-priest-resigns-over-wrongly-used-word-during-baptism-what-you-should-know-about-the-mix-up) for those not baptized correctly: _In Detroit, church officials in 2020 said a deacon used the wrong words while baptizing people from 1986 to 1999._ _The most dramatic consequence in that case involved a priest who was baptized by the deacon as a boy: Because the baptism was invalid, so was the 2017 priestly ordination of the Rev. Matthew Hood, who discovered the wrong words while watching a video of his childhood baptism, the archdiocese said._ _The archdiocese said marriages performed by Hood might not be valid and urged couples to speak to their pastor as soon as possible “so any steps can be taken to remedy your marital status in the church, if necessary.”_ Man, they sure are sticklers for details in this group (when it suits them). So, if the marriages performed by that priest are not valid, what of the offspring of those invalid marriages? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/80 "2022-02-18T16:19:48Z")
Forgiveness for the worst possible atrocities for a deathbed repentance but punish children for eternity for something that they had no say in. Merciful God, my ass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494.md?page=5)