# Catholic Remarriage **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 29, 2004, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635 "2004-09-29T06:08:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Thirsty\_Mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Thirsty\_Mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thirsty_Mind)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/1 "2004-09-29T06:08:20Z")
Is there any way to have a blessed second marriage and or recieve communion without an annulment? I know the criteria has gotten easier but I think it is silly to say the marriage never exisisted but say the children are legitement. Other info that may be a factor Married at 19. A non Catholic that converted She commited adultry several times with several people. We had three children which I’m quite sure I am the father. I, being the doornob I am, didn’t figure it out for 24 years. :smack: Divorice ensues in a platonic way. fast forward three years. I am engaged to a beautiful lady That deserves a blessed marriage and I think I or my children shouldn’t be punished for my first marriage. Any ideas ?? ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/2 "2004-09-29T07:13:13Z")
The question of the validity of the marriage of any individual Catholic can be a very complex one. There are so many factors that come into play: - was the marriage between two Catholics? - was the marriage between a Catholic and a baptised Christian from another ecclesial body (e.g. Anglican)? - was the marriage between a Catholic and a non-baptised person? - did the marriage take place in a Catholic church according to all of the requirements of canon law? If not, was the appropriate dispensation from the Church’s requirements granted? You should seek guidance from the Catholic marriage tribunal in your diocese. I’m sure that your parish priest can give you its details and a referral. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/3 "2004-09-29T11:37:31Z")
And by the way, sorry about the situation. That sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/4 "2004-09-29T11:51:13Z")
These days, if you marry such a person as cheats on you, you can get an annulment based on the idea that she was too immature at the time of marriage to enter into a serious committment, etc. etc. And you can get the annulment without her permission. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/5 "2004-09-29T12:14:11Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > These days, if you marry such a person as cheats on you, you can get an annulment based on the idea that she was too immature at the time of marriage to enter into a serious committment, etc. etc. And you can get the annulment without her permission. > > Good luck. I think he’s looking for a way to to it without an annulment. He doesn’t want to erase the first marriage and basically have his kids feel they’re from a marriage that never was. **Thirsty Mind** , maybe you could talk to someone in the church? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/6 "2004-09-29T12:46:50Z")
The short answer to the OP is No. Basically, the church says one marriage per person at a time and it does not recognize divorce, so the first marriage must be annulled. An annullment does not make the children illegitimate in from the perspective of the church. I’m not prepared to answer the emotional isues that the situation raises and I understand how the situation appears odd, but that is the technical legal situation. I would suggest contacting the diocesan Marriage Tribunal for more information, not just for the procedure but for the church’s views on the status of the children, etc. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/7 "2004-09-29T12:55:10Z")
The Eastern Orthodox allow divorce and remarriage. Do the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church allow this (i.e. is it considered a matter of discipline) or is this something they gave up when they came into union with the Catholic Church? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/8 "2004-09-29T14:11:25Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > These days, if you marry such a person as cheats on you, you can get an annulment based on the idea that she was too immature at the time of marriage to enter into a serious committment, etc. etc. And you can get the annulment without her permission. Even if the cheating took place, say, 10 years into the marriage? (I know that’s not the case at hand here, but this blanket statement really took me by surprise…) Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![JerH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@JerH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerH)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/9 "2004-09-29T14:20:01Z")
I think that, if your ex-wife dies, then you’re free to remarry because your first marriage has ended. (No, I’m not advocating murder, even of cheating ex-wives; just thought I’d give an answer that is technically correct but completely useless.) ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/10 "2004-09-29T14:53:37Z")
Go ask your priest. I’m pretty sure you’ll get a friendly answer. A close friend of mine was in the same situation, and he was afraid his kids would become bastards if he got the first one annulled. The priest reassured him, and said the kids would still be legitimate, and his family was welcome in the church anytime. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/11 "2004-09-29T23:09:46Z")
I’m in the position of such a child. That is to say, my parents were annulled some time after I was born. The official Church position is that, so long as the parents thought that a legitimate marriage existed, the children are legitimate. I think that this is the secular legal stance as well (legitimacy can be relevant in inheritance law). In any case, I fail to see how an annulment would be any more or less stressful, insulting, or otherwise bad for the children than would be a divorce without annulment. If they’re young, then you probably don’t even need to explain that the marriage is annuled in addition to being divorced, and if they’re old enough to warrent knowing what an annulment is, then they should also be old enough to understand and accept that you still love them regardless of the status of the marriage. As for cheating, I would presume that the basis for annulment would be that the infidelity is evidence that the cheating partner didn’t really intend to marry in the first place, and lack of intent is one valid grounds for annulment. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/12 "2004-09-30T04:59:22Z")
This website is an excellent source: [Catholic Annulment Process](http://www.stdanielclarkston.org/annulmnt.htm). Separation is accepted by the Church. Article 2382 of the _Catechism of the Catholic Church_ may be of interest: > [@](#): > > The _separation_ of spouses while maintaing the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law. > > If civil divorce remains the only possibvility of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be toleration and does not constitute a moral offense. If I understand correctly, while you may be separated (and file for a civil divorce), you may nonetheless not remarry (and remain in grace) unless an annulment is granted. The website says: > [@](#): > > But for a marriage to be truly valid (with the Catholic understanding of covenant) both parties must be capable of such a commitment, fully aware and freely giving consent. Sometimes one of these conditions is not present and therefore something is wrong from the beginning, something is lacking. In such a case there never was a valid marriage bond from the beginning. One or both parties may not have been capable of full consent for a number of personal reasons. Or there may have been undue external pressure. The _Catechism_ may even give some insight as to how this consent may not have been given in your case: > [@](#): > > **1625** The parties to a marriage covenant are a baptized man and woman, free to contract marriage, who freely express their consent; “to be free” means: > > - not being under constraint; > > - not impeded by any natural or ecclesiastical law. > > **1626** The Church holds the exchange of consent between the spouses to be the indispensable element that “makes the marriage.” If consent is lacking there is no marriage. > > **1627** The consent consists in a “human act by which the partners mutually give themselves to each other”: “I take you to be my wife” - “I take you to be my husband.” This consent that binds the spouses to each other finds its fulfillment in the two “becoming one flesh.” > > **1628** The consent must be an act of the will of each of the contracting parties, free of coercion or grave external fear. No human power can substitute for this consent. If this freedom is lacking the marriage is invalid. > > **1629** For this reason (or for other reasons that render the marriage null and void) the Church, after an examination of the situation by the competent ecclesiastical tribunal, can declare the nullity of the marriage, i.e., that the marriage never existed. In this case the contracting parties are free to marry, provided the natural obligations of a previous union are dishcarged. From the above, it seems that your wife did not truly give herself away to you: otherwise, the situation would not be at the point it is now. As she did not, the marriage is invalid. Also from the website: > [@](#): > > QUESTION: Will my children be illegitimate if my marriage is annulled? > > Answer: NO! This is a grave misconception. The marital status of the parents does not affect the status of the children. All children are created in God’s image and have equal status in the church. Neither civil law nor church law considers the children of an annulled marriage illegitimate. Nor does the annulment imply that the children were not the fruit of a genuine human love. Annulment is simply a decision on the circumstances surrounding a marriage that could prevent that marriage from being a sacramental marriage. So, your children remain legitimate even if the marriage is annuled. And if annuled, you may remarry the woman you love and have both remain in grace and communion with God and the Church. WRS (If I am incorrect above, please correct me.) ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-remarriage/266635/13 "2004-09-30T07:42:00Z")
> [@Thirsty Mind](#): > > Is there any way to have a blessed second marriage and or recieve communion without an annulment? **WRT a ‘blessed’ second marriage** : As has been adequately answered: No, not without an annulment. **WRT receiving communion** : At one time in the U.S., when secularism and the divorce rate was on the rise, the U.S. bishops (over) reacted and put a penalty on any Catholic who divorced. That penalty was to bar the divorced person from receiving communion (which is different from excommunication). With the reforms of Vatican II and the promulgation of a new code of canon law, such local laws were wiped clean. The new code did not impose a penalty on a Catholic who divorced. The U.S. bishops did not seek to reinstate a penalty on those who divorced. Thus, someone who is divorced may receive communion… unless… they remarried outside the church without an annulment from the previous marriage. From the point of view of the institution (which is not always the same as the point of view of God who sees what the institution is not able to see), divorce and remarriage is technically adultery. The institution says, “ummm, according to what we know, you’re still married to No.1, so what are you doing married to and sleeping with No.2?” It is in this case that there is a penalty of being barred from receiving communion (but not excommunication). > [@](#): > > I know the criteria has gotten easier but I think it is silly to say the marriage never exisisted but say the children are legitement. Yes, that is silly. However, that’s not what the Church is saying. What the Church is saying is, “At the time we witnessed your marriage, we, you, and everyone involved believed in good faith that the marriage was valid. It is only in retrospect that things have come to light which show that it actually wasn’t valid. And so, like a bad Star Trek time-travel episode, we now have two co-existing timelines: one in which your marriage is valid, and the new one in which your marriage is now not considered to have been valid. For those things which are in the past, like children and status in the church, we use the old timeline which says the marriage was valid. For those things which are in the future, like getting remarried, we use the new timeline, which says your marriage was invalid, and so, you are free to marry (for the first time, according to the new timeline) in the Church.” > [@](#): > > Other info that may be a factor: Married at 19. A non Catholic that converted. She commited adultry several times with several people. This is likely going to be an easy annulment to be had on the ground of a lack of due discretion (she didn’t know what she was doing) or due competence (she wasn’t capable of contracting a valid marriage covenant). She was young, and despite converting to Catholicism, she didn’t take fidelity seriously. Having several affairs with several differing people is very telling that she didn’t believe in fidelity or was incapable of it. > [@](#): > > We had three children which I’m quite sure I am the father. I, being the doornob I am, didn’t figure it out for 24 years. :smack: Divorce ensues in a platonic way. Quite common, unfortunately. I’m sure in retrospect, you’ll see all the signs you missed. But missing signs is what defense mechanisms are all about, especially when children are involved. Nobody wants to see the signs. > [@](#): > > fast forward three years. I am engaged to a beautiful lady That deserves a blessed marriage and I think I or my children shouldn’t be punished for my first marriage. Any ideas ?? Congratulations. The children issue has been well dealt with in this thread. Note that the annulment process is not easy, but that doesn’t make it a punishment. The Church has to investigate was was presumed to have been a valid marriage in order to catch up its eyes to what God sees. This means detailed testimony on your part, which, can be painful, but also cathartic. Call your local parish and ask to see a priest, deacon, or annulment advocate about getting an annulment. If you get any sort of a hard time about it, move on to the next parish (or call the diocesan tribunal). I’d say about three out of four parishes are prepared to treat you right (yeah, that fraction stinks, stupid human institution). Peace.