# Catholicism - the true Anti-Christ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2004, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376 "2004-08-18T10:43:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/21 "2004-08-18T16:15:50Z")
> [@Meta-Gumble](#): > > [Interfaith dialogue under Roman Catholicism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition) I was unable to find your debatable proposition at this link. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/22 "2004-08-18T16:17:36Z")
> [@Meta-Gumble](#): > > [Interfaith dialogue under Roman Catholicism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition) Actually, you’d probably want either the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity: [http://www.vatican.va/roman\_curia/pontifical\_councils/chrstuni/index.htm](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/index.htm) Or the Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue: [http://www.vatican.va/roman\_curia/pontifical\_councils/interelg/index.htm](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/index.htm) In America, there’s the US Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Department of Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs: [http://www.nccbuscc.org/seia/index.htm](http://www.nccbuscc.org/seia/index.htm) ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/23 "2004-08-18T16:53:32Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Hey, dude, everybody else left US! 😃 Nah, you all left _US_. ;j Then you let in all the riff-raff. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/24 "2004-08-18T17:32:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I was unable to find your debatable proposition at this link. To expand on Bricker, your link opens to an entry for the Inquisition. Assuming the link is correct, are you arguing that secular governments under the direction of Roman Catholic prelates continue to interrogate and torture persons suspected of spreading heresies, as happened 600 years ago? Since you didn’t make that clear in the original post, I could be misinterpreting. Please clarify your argument. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/25 "2004-08-18T17:37:16Z")
My God! Metagrumble knows! Now how can we do or evil deeds when everyone EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/26 "2004-08-18T18:11:27Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > My God! Metagrumble knows! Now how can we do or evil deeds when everyone EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!! You lie! NO-ONE expects the Spanish Inquisition! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/27 "2004-08-18T18:25:27Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > I’m almost suffering a stroke trying to figure this out. It’s not religious hatred, just a general slam on Catholocism? Damnit, I’ve been in the faith my entire life and I thought it was a religion! :smack: Well, that’s point, you see! Jesus hates religion! And the Roman Catholic Institution (not “Church”) is a religion! Protestant (True) Christianity, on the other hand, is not a religion, it’s a . . . mmm . . . it’s a . . . my brain hurts . . . here, let Jack Chick explain it: [http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071\_01.asp](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp), [http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074\_01.asp](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp), [http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5023/5023\_01.asp](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5023/5023_01.asp). ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/28 "2004-08-18T18:29:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, that’s point, you see! Jesus hates religion! And the Roman Catholic Institution (not “Church”) is a religion! Protestant (True) Christianity, on the other hand, is not a religion, it’s a . . . mmm . . . it’s a . . . my brain hurts . . . here, let Jack Chick explain it: [http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071\_01.asp](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp), [http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074\_01.asp](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp), [http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5023/5023\_01.asp](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5023/5023_01.asp). This can’t seriously be what the type of stuff the OP had in mind, can it? Please tell me this wasn’t it! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/29 "2004-08-18T18:43:38Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > You lie! NO-ONE expects the Spanish Inquisition! What about Batman? He’s prepared for everything. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/30 "2004-08-18T18:52:06Z")
Ordinarily when I read an OP like this I would just assume it was one of those transient kooks we get from time to time who post the same, semi-comprehensible religious screed or bizarre conspiracy theory in four or five different forums and then get quickly banned or vanish on their own. But **Meta-Gumble** has been around here for a while and I don’t remember this kind of behavior coming from him in the past. Is it against GD rules to wonder if someone is off his meds? ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/31 "2004-08-18T19:02:07Z")
> [@Meta-Gumble](#): > > \ > They are unforgiving in every respect. > \ > Yes but I am enjoying this madness. > \ I forgive you for starting this thread and your madness…how’s that for starters? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/32 "2004-08-18T19:03:13Z")
Meta-Gumble, I hope you are all right. This OP is a bit of a cause of concern. If you are fine, I suggest that you read the seventh chapter of Matthew- that bit about judging others and being forgiven as you forgive others might be of help to you. Have you ever considered making an appointment with a Catholic priest and talking about your concerns with him? I haven’t met a priest yet that would decline an appointment. Regarding your comments about the Catholic Church, I think you’d have a legitimate beef if you were talking about the Church in the Middle Ages, but I think it has become much more tolerant since then. It isn’t standard teaching that only Catholics are worthy of salvation or the sole professors of truth. How you interpret your Gospel passage to mean that Catholics divide their enemies and are unforgiving requires some explanation on your part. And this bloated hierarchy that delights in sensual pleasures is a mystery, particularly since celibacy is required. Please elaborate on your statements as I think a lot of us would like to know the logic behind them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/33 "2004-08-18T19:07:30Z")
I don’t think **Meta-Gumble** has turned into a Chickista, since earlier this year he posted that he was Zen Buddhist possibly heading toward Taoist. While stranger things have happened, going from Taoist to extreme Christian fundamentalist doesn’t seem very likely. This is also the only post where he has ever even mentioned the Catholic Church. Maybe somebody else is using his computer? ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/34 "2004-08-18T19:19:14Z")
> [@JohnM](#): > > Maybe somebody else is using his computer? Well, then I forgive that person too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/35 "2004-08-18T19:59:53Z")
As yet another damned papist, I forgive **whoever-is-currently-posting-as-Meta-Gumble** as well. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/36 "2004-08-18T20:40:22Z")
> [@Meta-Gumble](#): > > They keep the meat and hand out the parsley. ? It must be my Bad English… I am confused… > [@](#): > > They try to cause division between those with whom they don’t agree. Interpreting this verse: I’m not going to debate quality of the translation or differences between translations, but according to one of my translations this part of chapter 12 is titled “The blasphemy of the Farisees”. An other translation calls it " Healing on The Sabbath" and yet an other translation titles it as “Healing on a sabbath”. How do you bring Catholics in direct connection with: 1. Farisees 2. the Jewish sabbath ? How do you bring these verses in connection with 1. what you write here > [@](#): > > to mean that they should cause division among their perceived enemies of God. 1. once again: Catholics in particular? > [@](#): > > They are unforgiving in every respect. Same questions. > [@](#): > > They support a bloated hierarchy which delights in the sensual pleasures and riches that the gospel teaches against. Where is that to be found in these verses? And who are “they”? > [@](#): > > How are they of Christ? If your question goes about Christians… The word explains itself, no? > [@](#): > > For the record I am not coming in on the side of protestantism esp. Lutheranism or Calvinism, because they too missed the point of the gospel - Luther was a hater. But I expect that he was turned against the Jews by the Catholics. So you think that other Christians = those who are not Cahtolics, have rewritten the Bible or do you think that the Catholics did it ? If not: What on earth is your point here by giving your “interpretation” of these verses and claim that this is the way Catholics do it? If there was in Christian history - and here and there still – a blame game demonising the Jews for the death of Jesus, why do you think that Luther would be “turned against the Jews” by (of all people) the Catholics? And while you are at it, why do you say that Luther was “evil”? > [@](#): > > Sound crazy? Yes, it does (mission accomplished I would say). > [@](#): > > Yes but I am enjoying this madness. Which one? Yours or that of “the Catholics” or the Madness of The Bible or of the SDMB or The Madness of the World in general? By the way: the AntiChrist is - as everyone who is not crazy knows – underscribed, The Mad Arab. Author of the Adipocere, The Book of Truth that was falsely named The Necronomicon by AntiSatan Copyists who worked for and under the under the supervision of _ **The Evil Catholics** _.shiver… Salaam. A T.M.A. [sup]**TM[/sup]** ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/37 "2004-08-18T21:53:15Z")
> [@Meta-Gumble](#): > > Do not class this as religious hatred - I hate only the divisive mind and it is this which Catholicism embodies. > > Is it wrong to hate division and all its manifestations? Dude, if you’re going after divisiveness, the Catholic Church is not the one to which you should point. They’ve been pretty stable now for quite some time. It’s the Protestant faiths which are divisive. They’re constantly bickering over minor doctrinal points. In my community, churches constantly split and form new churches because of petty disputes among the congregation over incredibly minute details. (Each smugly confident that the other is going to hell.) There is no consistancy from one Protestant church to another. Each has widely varying beliefs and rules, even those supposedly within one particular sect. Actually, when you boil it down, if you hate divisiveness, you should despise religion all together. Nothing in this world compares to it when it comes to causing conflict and strife. Nothing has caused more suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/38 "2004-08-18T22:02:23Z")
If Catholicism is the Anti-Christ, does that make us Anglicans the Demi-Anti-Christ? ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/39 "2004-08-18T22:17:17Z")
> [@Governor Quinn](#): > > If Catholicism is the Anti-Christ, does that make us Anglicans the Demi-Anti-Christ? Seems that the Wiccans are the Messiah 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376/40 "2004-08-18T22:24:34Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Seems that the Wiccans are the Messiah 😃 That’ll please **matt\_mcl**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholicism-the-true-anti-christ/260376.md?page=3)