# Catholics and belief in evolution. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 10, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678 "2010-04-10T23:44:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/21 "2010-04-11T14:45:48Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > Was also taught evolution in Catholic school. > > In fact, my frosh year religion teacher, a Jesuit, taught us more about evolution than our biology teacher the same year. This _might_ just be a sign of a useless biology teacher. Or a typical Jesuit. Regarding the OP, another vote for ill-/misinformed. Catholicism has not held that science and theology are necessarily at loggerheads for decades, if not centuries (Galileo vs the Inquisition notwithstanding). ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/22 "2010-04-11T14:54:28Z")
Thank you for your responses, everyone. Huh. Well, now I’m wondering if it’s an Indian thing. Somehow I doubt we have any Indian Catholic Dopers to ask. ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/23 "2010-04-11T16:30:54Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Thank you for your responses, everyone. Huh. Well, now I’m wondering if it’s an Indian thing. Somehow I doubt we have any Indian Catholic Dopers to ask. I’m sure it’s just a less-educated thing, Catholicism is a world-wide religion and there is huge variation on what Catholics will say that they do and do not believe. I’d bet you could find Catholics in the US who believe that Adam and Eve really were the first man and woman, in fact I bet I could find some today in Chicago if I just kept asking. What’s more surprising that that they made a _point_ of asking you about evolution, IME the evolution conflict in the US has nothing to do with Catholics, it’s more a issue taken up by fundamentalist Christians who are decidedly _not Catholic_. I’m surprised it was on the radar of some Catholic girls in India, if they brought it up then that suggests it’s a debate they’ve been following. Not knowing all the details, I would assume this was mostly them being teenagers who were recently discussing religion with someone else who didn’t really know what they were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/24 "2010-04-11T17:58:12Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Thank you for your responses, everyone. Huh. Well, now I’m wondering if it’s an Indian thing. Somehow I doubt we have any Indian Catholic Dopers to ask. Dunno, but I have the distinct impression that the Catholic Church in Africa at least practically espouses a much more biblically literal dogma than the “official” roman pronouncements suggests. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/25 "2010-04-11T18:14:56Z")
> [@Mithril](#): > > There are \*a lot \*of people who are Catholic but don’t actually know anything about the religion. This. Just as there are a lot of Americans who don’t really get the First Amendment, separation of powers, other basics of American civics, there are a lot of Catholics who have only a very vague idea of what the church says about anything. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/26 "2010-04-11T18:17:02Z")
My parents were taught evolution in school. That was a combo of public schools and several different nuns for her (born 1940) and of the Escolapios and Jesuits for him (born 1938; sorry, I don’t know what are the Escolapios called in English but it’s a male religious order dedicated to teaching and focusing mostly on primary school). By the time evolution came up in my school (Company of Mary 6th grade and later Jesuits 9th grade), I’d already known about it for yoinks. The explanations didn’t focus so much on “is this true” as on “how does it work, what is known and what are the questions being researched now”. It was part of the same lessons as genetics; I didn’t get it again in 12th grade because I hadn’t chosen biochemistry as one of my optionals. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/27 "2010-04-11T18:54:33Z")
> [@sugar\_and\_spice](#): > > What’s more surprising that that they made a _point_ of asking you about evolution, IME the evolution conflict in the US has nothing to do with Catholics, it’s more a issue taken up by fundamentalist Christians who are decidedly _not Catholic_. I’m surprised it was on the radar of some Catholic girls in India, if they brought it up then that suggests it’s a debate they’ve been following. Not knowing all the details, I would assume this was mostly them being teenagers who were recently discussing religion with someone else who didn’t really know what they were talking about. Sorry, I wasn’t clear. They weren’t teenagers, they were in their mid-20s, old enough that they were sighing about not being married yet because it meant that they couldn’t move out of their parents’ houses and be a little independent. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/28 "2010-04-11T19:56:00Z")
The first “official rules” for Catholics and evolution come from [Humani Generi (1950)](http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html). The classic summary is 1. The human body can be the result of changes in pre-existing living creatures. 2. The soul is not the result of evolution. 3. There is no theological obligation to accept evolution. 4. All humans descend from Adam and Eve (the first humans) John Paul II said (from Wikipedia): In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points…Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies – which was neither planned nor sought – constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory. “Theories of evolution which, because of the philosophies which inspire them, regard the spirit either as emerging from the forces of living matter, or as a simple epiphenomenon of that matter, are incompatible with the truth about man.” ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/29 "2010-04-11T20:11:31Z")
I’m not Catholic, but I did go to a Catholic high school, and was taught biology, and a hefty dose of evolution and evolutionary theory from an ordained Jesuit priest. I’d think that if that doesn’t clarify the Catholic position on evolution, then very little else will. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/30 "2010-04-11T20:37:45Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’m not Catholic, but I did go to a Catholic high school, and was taught biology, and a hefty dose of evolution and evolutionary theory from an ordained Jesuit priest. > > I’d think that if that doesn’t clarify the Catholic position on evolution, then very little else will. I was aware of this, and I think I made that clear in the OP. My question wasn’t so much the official take on theology, but more about what ordinary people believe. It sounds like there is a wide range of beliefs, depending on people’s level of education. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/31 "2010-04-11T21:07:22Z")
My mother is a very devout Catholic. Actually calls herself a fundamentalist Catholic. She use to be a nurse (LVN). She believes in creationism. I’m a Catholic too, but not as devout and I don’t have any medical training. I use to believe in creationism but now believe in evolution. Actually, I guess my belief is closer to intelligent design in that I believe that God started it and probably guided it, but unlike the intelligent design crowd I know that my belief is a mix of religion and science. Or, in other words, I know that my belief that God is responsible is religious and not scientific. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/32 "2010-04-11T21:52:32Z")
Catholic and Catholic-educated for the first thirteen years of my education (five of those years by Jesuits, eight by Gray Nuns of the Sacred Heart). I was taught evolution (at an age-appropriate level) all the way through my education. As to what ordinary people believe, the vast majority of Catholics I know (lay or otherwise) have no issues with the theory of evolution. And that’s a lot of Catholics, having grown up in a nearly purely Catholic environment, in a strongly Catholic family. I’ve run into a very small number of Catholics who do. Most of them were simply ignorant. One or two are wilfully ignorant and really should know better. Of the Catholics I’ve encountered who do have a problem with the theory of evolution, not a one of them was educated by Jesuits. Those of you who mentioned above that you went to Jesuit schools will understand. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/33 "2010-04-11T23:13:45Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I was aware of this, and I think I made that clear in the OP. My question wasn’t so much the official take on theology, but more about what ordinary people believe. > > It sounds like there is a wide range of beliefs, depending on people’s level of education. Of course it’s true that there’s a range of beliefs, depending on the level of education of the believer. But what the Church actually teaches is part of the reality, too. It’s an imperfect world, and the Church is an imperfect teacher, and not everything reaches every Catholic. Or even every Catholic priest, or nun, or teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/34 "2010-04-15T01:48:58Z")
I was educated in Catholic schools more than 40 years ago, and we were taught, quite matter of factly, about evolution. I can’t remember even a single parent having a problem with it. The whole Galileo thing branded the Roman Catholics as anti-science. But to be fair, that happened 400 years ago. Even in the Catholic church, four centuries is long enough to see some change. ---
**Author:** ![Mesquite-oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@Mesquite-oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mesquite-oh)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/35 "2010-04-15T07:40:45Z")
I had a Catholic education and we were taught evolution. In fact, religion wasn’t really discussed or seem to directly influence any of our classes other than religion class itself (except occassionally art and music, which we would use to prep stuff for mass). ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/36 "2010-04-15T08:27:30Z")
> [@Mesquite-oh](#): > > I had a Catholic education and we were taught evolution. In fact, religion wasn’t really discussed or seem to directly influence any of our classes other than religion class itself (except occassionally art and music, which we would use to prep stuff for mass). My experience, as well. I don’t even recall a student/nun/priest making any comments about “alternative” theories, even as an aside or joke. Certainly not saying that there aren’t Catholics out there that believe in intelligent design just that out of the hundreds I’ve met over my lifetime, I’ve never met one that does. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/37 "2010-04-15T12:03:53Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > It is my understanding that the previous pope declared that Catholicism is not incompatible with the theory of evolution. (I am not a Catholic, and if I am mistaken, I would appreciate correction.) > > I am curious to know what the reality is of Catholic beliefs in evolution. A pit thread reminded me of a conversation I had last summer with a couple of Catholic girls I met in India. Like a lot of the Indians I met, they wanted to know my religious background, and were surprised to find that I am an atheist. They asked if I believed in evolution, and I said yes. They then exchanged glances like “ooookay, now we’re talking to a crazy one” and told me that they’re Catholics, so they don’t believe in it. I told them that the pope has said that evolution is cool for Catholics to believe in, but they clearly disbelieved me and had no idea what I was talking about. > > What do you think, Catholic Dopers? My daughter goes to Catholic school here in San Antonio and they touched on evolution a bit during her science studies (she’s in the second grade). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/38 "2010-04-15T12:20:40Z")
Evidently people don’t talk about _Teilhard de Chardin_ much anymore. Jesuit priest, paleontologist, and believer in evolution well before _Humani generis_ (which seems to have censured him, but I gather not because of evolution) > **[Pierre Teilhard de Chardin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin)** > > Pierre Teilhard de Chardin SJ (French: \[pjɛʁ tɛjaʁ də ʃaʁdɛ̃\] (listeni); 1 May 1881 – 10 April 1955) was a French Jesuit priest, scientist, paleontologist, theologian, philosopher and teacher. He was Darwinian in outlook and the author of several influential theological and philosophical books. > He took part in the discovery of Peking Man. He conceived the vitalist idea of the Omega Point. With Vladimir Vernadsky he developed the concept of the noosphere. > In 1962, the Congregation for the Doct... ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/39 "2010-04-15T14:57:19Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Another vote for “was taught evolution in a Catholic high school.” It disturbs me that we agree so much, Oak, it really does. I’ll add Catholic college so at least we’re distinct that way. Plus I’m so pretty. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678/40 "2010-04-15T15:39:18Z")
In Ireland we had religion classes. In one school the religion teacher was a actual priest. If you had a note from a parent you could be excused from the class. We had a Muslim in the class whose parents were very happy for him to attend after speaking to the priest. In every school I was in (I attended 3 as a teen) evolution was taught in science class without any clarification about other ‘beliefs’. In religion we read the bible(rarely), talked it out and did a lot of comparative religion stuff like learning a bit about Judaism, Islam, Buddhism etc. Creationism was mentioned in religion class but only a slightly mocking way e.g. “there are some misguided people who believe the creation myth in the Bible is fact” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-and-belief-in-evolution/535678.md?page=3)