# Catholics aren't really Christian? Huh? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 23, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350 "2012-01-23T00:51:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/82 "2012-01-26T13:30:59Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Before we get all “Ignorant Fundamentalist-Evangelical bashing” here let me say that > > 1.) before Vatican II, official Catholic doctrine pretty much seemed to be that Protestants were not true Christians- I am sure you can find exceptions but Protestant-acceptance was not codified until VatII- and even so, our churches may be ‘ecclesial organizations’ (IIRC) but they are not considered part of the True Church, > > 2.) in the two Evangelical circles I’ve been in- the Christian & Missionary Alliance and the Assemblies of God, sentiments toward Catholicism have ranged from amiable disagreement (most common) to JackChickian paranoia (least common). > The basic view has seemed to be “they are off base about a LOT but they do have the essential Christian doctrines. They need to make sure they have a personal saving faith in Jesus Christ & not just rely on their Church membership to take care of them.” This is correct,The RCC teaches( or taught) because they feel they left the RCC and started another religion. They use the Bible’s statement that Peter was the Rock on which Jesus built his church, and Jesus promised that what Peter bound on earth was also bound in Heaven.And the gates of Hell would not prevail over it. In reality it could be said that the Christian church was a break from Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/83 "2012-01-26T13:39:49Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Popery, on the other hand, is what you put in the bathroom to keep it smelling nice. Yes, but a book of matches under the sink is a nice back-up. Be prepared, I always say. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/84 "2012-01-26T13:51:55Z")
I thought that when we get to Heaven all our worldly needs and cares are forgotten-so why are we bothering the saints that earned a special place up there with our worldly needs and cares? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/85 "2012-01-26T14:42:26Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > Just for giggles are there sects in the US that don’t consider Anglicans to be Christian? Are you kidding? In the US there are \*Anglicans \*who don’t consider other Anglicans to be Christian. I am not making this up. ---
**Author:** ![SeamusMcCool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SeamusMcCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeamusMcCool)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/86 "2012-01-26T16:21:39Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > To SeamusMcCool: > > In reference to the Hail Mary: it isn’t really a prayer TO Mary. > > “Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.” > > It’s a request asking her to pray FOR us. > > And the body of the prayer comes straight from Luke 1: 46-55. > ~VOW Pray to her to pray for us. I don’t think she takes e-mail or has a cell phone. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/87 "2012-01-26T19:56:20Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Are you kidding? In the US there are \*Anglicans \*who don’t consider other Anglicans to be Christian. I am not making this up. Over what? Gay rights? Or something older? ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/88 "2012-01-26T20:44:14Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Over what? Gay rights? Or something older? The former. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/89 "2012-01-26T21:03:22Z")
Here is my own anecdote. Growing up, my Dad took us to a non-denominational church though he himself was raised as a baptist, I believe. He was a pretty hardline “christian” (though a terrible drunk so go figure), and firmly believed that Catholics were not true Christians and would not be going to heaven. I believe some of the reasons he proffered included: The idea of having a pope and a hierarchy of some guys being closer to God than others is inherently un-Christian. The infallibility of the pope (or whatever it’s really called) is supposedly against Bible teachings. The Catholic church’s “obsession” with Mary and Saints. Not really sure why this is so anti-Christian, but it sure rubbed my dad and others in the church the wrong way. The idea of praying to Mary, asking her to do stuff, etc, is just weird to guys like my dad and not very Christian. I think there was something about Protestants being against Catholic Icons, and I heard my dad talk about it a few times, about how they “worship idols.” Anyhow, I’m an atheist now and I see the Catholic Church as infinitely more tolerable than any other branch of mainstream Christianity I know about, so don’t take any of the above as my own point of view or opinion. But it was certainly drilled into my brain that Catholics are evil hethens, as bad as Muslims or Athiests. For what it’s worth, there was a billboard that read “The Pope is the Anti-Christ” outside my small Southern Oregon town for over a decade. I have no idea who put it up or why it was there. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/90 "2012-01-26T22:03:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I thought that when we get to Heaven all our worldly needs and cares are forgotten-so why are we bothering the saints that earned a special place up there with our worldly needs and cares? Presumably they wouldn’t cause the miracles that the church needs to canonize them. If the miracles do happen then the saint wants to be bothered. If they don’t, then the saint doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/91 "2012-01-26T22:36:19Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Over what? Gay rights? Or something older? > [@BwanaBob](#): > > The former. Mostly the former, but there are also lingering issues about women’s ordination, and accusations of various heresies. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/92 "2012-01-27T01:18:46Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > During a slightly religious conversation with a friend of mine, he mentioned: “well you know, that Catholics aren’t really Christian.” > > I was pretty astounded by this. Its a totally foreign concept to me. I’m sure it is a controversial idea and probably pretty inflamatory. > > I just don’t get the idea of how anyone could justify such a thought. Would someone please fill me in on how this could have any basis in logic. > > If not logic, can you at least explain how someone can believe this to be true? I’ve posted this before but it bears repeating: My SIL is convinced (probably by her pastor) that the RCC is the Scarlet Whore of Babylon. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/93 "2012-01-27T04:38:35Z")
Jehovah’s Witness literature is… interesting. I seem to recall the Vatican represented by a whore riding a tiger in one left on my door. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/94 "2012-01-27T12:13:15Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Here is my own anecdote. > > Growing up, my Dad took us to a non-denominational church though he himself was raised as a baptist, I believe. He was a pretty hardline “christian” (though a terrible drunk so go figure), and firmly believed that Catholics were not true Christians and would not be going to heaven. I believe some of the reasons he proffered included: > > The idea of having a pope and a hierarchy of some guys being closer to God than others is inherently un-Christian. The infallibility of the pope (or whatever it’s really called) is supposedly against Bible teachings. > > The Catholic church’s “obsession” with Mary and Saints. Not really sure why this is so anti-Christian, but it sure rubbed my dad and others in the church the wrong way. The idea of praying to Mary, asking her to do stuff, etc, is just weird to guys like my dad and not very Christian. > > I think there was something about Protestants being against Catholic Icons, and I heard my dad talk about it a few times, about how they “worship idols.” > > Anyhow, I’m an atheist now and I see the Catholic Church as infinitely more tolerable than any other branch of mainstream Christianity I know about, so don’t take any of the above as my own point of view or opinion. But it was certainly drilled into my brain that Catholics are evil hethens, as bad as Muslims or Athiests. > > For what it’s worth, there was a billboard that read “The Pope is the Anti-Christ” outside my small Southern Oregon town for over a decade. I have no idea who put it up or why it was there. It couldn’t be against The Bible’s teachings because it was the RCC and Orthodox that decided what was God’s word, or inspired by God,plus, if Jesus gave the power that the Bible says Jesus gave to Peter that what was bound or loosed on earth would be bound or loosed in Heaven, then what ever Peter and his successors did would be the word of God. People forget that it was not God who said or did anything it was humans the word of the Bishops in the 300s. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/95 "2012-01-27T12:16:18Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Jehovah’s Witness literature is… interesting. I seem to recall the Vatican represented by a whore riding a tiger in one left on my door. This is the point I like to make, that Belief is not fact, they have the right to believe as they wish, but that doesn’t make it true. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/96 "2012-01-27T12:38:38Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The entire concept of Protestantism is that the Catholic Church WAS NOT following the beliefs from the Apostolic age. Luther did not think he was coming up with a new interpretation of the Gospel, but pointing out the corruption that had happened over time. > > In fact, I know of several “apostolic” churches that teach that they alone of all the churches are still following from the apostolic age because they believe in speaking in tongues. > > I honestly don’t get why so many people are shocked by the idea that a denomination would say that another denomination is not Christian. They aren’t using the sociological definition that you are what you claim to be. They are using their denomination’s criteria for the term, and people of this other denomination don’t fit. > > And, yes, quite a few cite the statues and prayers to the saints as proof that Catholicism is idolatrous. And while I know that they aren’t supposed to be, I’ve definitely seen people who actually appear to be worshiping a statue of Mary rather than using it as a symbol while asking Mary to intercede for them. When I meet people who freak out over saying the “Blessed Virgin” but constantly say “Oh my God” and “Jesus Christ”, it’s hard for me to not think that they think Mary is more venerable than God himself. > > My personal belief is that it’s simpler to avoid the temptation and just not venerate anyone. People honor a lot of people now, and ask other people to pray for them they are not giving the person the same level as God, however if the Bible is correct then according to the psalmist and Jesus who agreed with the psalmist used the phrase"I said you are gods and sons of god. That puts a whole new light on the subject. Of course the psalmist was just a human being, and how one translates it makes a whole lot of difference. There are statues of many famous people and no one thinks they are being worshiped, just honored and some people pray in front of a statue to help them consentrate on the prayer. I personally believe that if God is all knowing ,loving etc. than prayer is a lack of trust in God. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/97 "2012-01-27T12:40:19Z")
A conversation with my wife (well, with my girlfriend, when the conversation happened): “Catholics aren’t Christian.” “Yes they are.” “No they aren’t.” “OK… how do you define “Christian”?” “Someone who believes in Christ… and isn’t Catholic!” “That would be what is known as a _Protestant._ Or an Orthodox Christian, actually, but that’s not really the point… Then you have the Anglicans…” I’ve been known to wander off on tangents. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/98 "2012-01-27T12:42:23Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Oh yeah? If you, a Catholic, think God _needs_ the extra help, or that we lay human beings _can’t_ approach God or Jesus directly, but need a saint or a priest or a church to serve as an intermediary, that’s where I, a Protestant, have a theological dispute with you. Why don’t you just trust that God being a good( and all knowing) father would not give anything harmful to you, or hold anything back as a good human father would when he knows for sure that it would be in his child’s best interest? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/99 "2012-01-27T13:23:42Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Presumably they wouldn’t cause the miracles that the church needs to canonize them. If the miracles do happen then the saint wants to be bothered. If they don’t, then the saint doesn’t. But the poor saint-to-be doesn’t have a vote in the matter. She/he doesn’t get a chance to say,“Dude, I swear that cancer went into remission all by itself, and that picture would ‘cry’ less if you purchased a dehumidifier.” ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/100 "2012-01-27T13:51:12Z")
Someone wrote “the apostles were 12 Aramaic men. If priests don’t have to be Aramaic (Jesus didn’t have any American disciples back then), then why do they have to be men?” It was just the culture at the time (how women were regarded). People (even with their modern prejudices) love to read into scripture the things they want to hear. I was raised Lutheran and have gone over to the Episcopal Church. God is supposed to be about love, not hate, fear and regimentation. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350/101 "2012-01-27T15:03:44Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Why don’t you just trust that God being a good( and all knowing) father would not give anything harmful to you, or hold anything back as a good human father would when he knows for sure that it would be in his child’s best interest? Asking saints to intercede for you is no different, really, than asking your friends or family members to pray for you. It’s not a sign of lack of trust in God to do good. When you ask your best friend to pray to God for you, no one accuses you of worshipping your friend. (I’m not RCC and don’t venerate saints but I understand the reasoning behind the practice). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholics-arent-really-christian-huh/610350.md?page=6)