# Cathy says the Welsh are dark because of the dashing Spanish Armada. Is she.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 31, 2005, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cathy-says-the-welsh-are-dark-because-of-the-dashing-spanish-armada-is-she/328690 "2005-10-31T07:52:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Woodruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sarah\_Woodruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarah_Woodruff)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cathy-says-the-welsh-are-dark-because-of-the-dashing-spanish-armada-is-she/328690/1 "2005-10-31T07:52:26Z")
overly litigious wrong or right? Catherine Zeta-Jones, that well-known ex-Welshwoman, reckons that she’s so…Mediteranian-looking because some of her ancestors were shipwrecked sailors from the Spanish Armada. I always thought the Welsh tended to be darker of hair and eyes than the other native peoples of the British Isles because they are largely of Iberian Celtic origin. What’s the actual reason? Because it can’t be the sunny Welsh climate. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cathy-says-the-welsh-are-dark-because-of-the-dashing-spanish-armada-is-she/328690/2 "2005-10-31T08:05:15Z")
I’ve heard the same thing about people who are so-called “black Irish” - Irish people with apparently Mediterranean coloration. But from everything I’ve heard, it’s mostly bullshit. Before the Celts showed up in Britain, the place was inhabited by Picts, who were a dark skinned and dark haired people. Incidentally, what do you mean by “overly litigous”? Is she suing someone about this? ---
**Author:** ![Apricot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@Apricot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apricot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cathy-says-the-welsh-are-dark-because-of-the-dashing-spanish-armada-is-she/328690/3 "2005-10-31T08:22:34Z")
Here’s a nice look at an historical photo and a link about her litigiousness: [http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/archives/001047.html](http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/archives/001047.html) ---
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Woodruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sarah\_Woodruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarah_Woodruff)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cathy-says-the-welsh-are-dark-because-of-the-dashing-spanish-armada-is-she/328690/4 "2005-10-31T08:39:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Incidentally, what do you mean by “overly litigous”? Is she suing someone about this? Shh! Don’t give her and Michael ideas! ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cathy-says-the-welsh-are-dark-because-of-the-dashing-spanish-armada-is-she/328690/5 "2005-10-31T09:11:15Z")
The Perfect Master says [this](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_111.html) about Spanish Armada shipwreckees in Ireland, and [this](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a930730.html) about the “Black Irish”. Given the much _smaller_ likelihood that survivors of the Armada made landfall in Wales rather than Ireland, I’d say that CZJ is talking out of her (admittedly very lovely) backside. On the other hand, there’s nothing to stop _her in particular_ from having Mediterranean ancestry. It’s just wrong for her to claim it as part of some greater historical trend. ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cathy-says-the-welsh-are-dark-because-of-the-dashing-spanish-armada-is-she/328690/6 "2005-10-31T10:12:07Z")
Furthermore: [Here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Armada) is Wikipedia’s take on the Spanish Armada, including how a rare hurricane wrecked many of the surviving Spanish ships on Irish shores. [This map](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Routes_armada.gif) shows the wrecks. Note how many ended up on Welsh shores: zero. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cathy-says-the-welsh-are-dark-because-of-the-dashing-spanish-armada-is-she/328690/7 "2005-10-31T12:06:21Z")
They haven’t received as many blond genes from Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxons invaders like other peoples from the British Isles. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cathy-says-the-welsh-are-dark-because-of-the-dashing-spanish-armada-is-she/328690/8 "2005-10-31T15:05:46Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#): > > They haven’t received as many blond genes from Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxons invaders like other peoples from the British Isles. Actually, I’ve heard that the blond hair/blue eyes coloring comes from the Slavic peoples, and that Scandinavians were traditionally redheaded. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cathy-says-the-welsh-are-dark-because-of-the-dashing-spanish-armada-is-she/328690/9 "2005-10-31T15:13:45Z")
You learn summat new each day: > [@Cecil's column linked to earlier](#): > > Costello is a name adopted by certain of the Normans who invaded Ireland in 1171. I will impress (i.e. bore) my Costello-descended relatives with this nugget of annoyingly-Anglocentric trivia 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cathy-says-the-welsh-are-dark-because-of-the-dashing-spanish-armada-is-she/328690/10 "2005-10-31T16:32:00Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Actually, I’ve heard that the blond hair/blue eyes coloring comes from the Slavic peoples, and that Scandinavians were traditionally redheaded. A Swedish researcher did an analysis of Swedish army records of recruits for the last 100+ years, which, due to compulsory universal military service, provided a very complete database of the male Swedish population. The records included details of personal appearance, and he determined that the blond, blue-eyed “typical Swede” was actually distinctly in the minority.