# catsix are you serious? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607 "2005-02-06T03:41:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/61 "2005-02-07T17:21:16Z")
> [@](#): > > **Marley23** said: > That would’ve been much more clear if the fact that she was a transsexual didn’t figure in your insult. The only relevance that has is that it’s part of the hypocrisy. She wasn’t insulted for being a transsexual, she was insulted for being a hypocrite. I’d hit her with the same insult if it had to do with, say, a facelift being considered acceptable while saying that I need mental help for wanting to not be unhealthily overweight. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/62 "2005-02-07T18:36:26Z")
**catsix** , to be fair, a lot of those feminists you hate have made it possible for you to vote, own property, and have the right to make your own choices regarding reproduction. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/63 "2005-02-07T19:25:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **catsix** , to be fair, a lot of those feminists you hate have made it possible for you to vote, own property, and have the right to make your own choices regarding reproduction. No they didn’t. YOu’re confusing the names she mentioned with those who were at Seneca Falls. The names she mentioned are responsible for trying to turn porn into a civil rights violation. In fact, keep this thread in mind and Google “Germaine Greer” and “Rachel Padman” and behold the irony. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/64 "2005-02-07T19:30:33Z")
> [@Mojo](#): > > No they didn’t. YOu’re confusing the names she mentioned with those who were at Seneca Falls. The names she mentioned are responsible for trying to turn porn into a civil rights violation. In fact, keep this thread in mind and Google “Germaine Greer” and “Rachel Padman” and behold the irony. Well, I agree there-what gets me is that she seems to hate ALL feminists. Not just the nutty ones. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/65 "2005-02-07T19:34:08Z")
And to add-I wouldn’t inclue **margin** in that group, either. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/66 "2005-02-07T19:42:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, I agree there-what gets me is that she seems to hate ALL feminists. Not just the nutty ones. Word. > [@catsix](#): > > I hate feminists, **such as but not limited to** , Catharine MacKinnon, Andrea Dworking, Susan Brownmiller, Germaine Greer, Gloria Steinem, and their bigoted, sexist, lie spreading, freak agenda. Bolding mine.Feminists are bigots. With freak agendas. According to **catsix** , there is no such thing as a reasonable feminist. I’m not sure exactly how she defines feminists, but apparently I am one. _shrug_ I don’t personally consider it an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/67 "2005-02-07T21:51:28Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Honestly, did you even **read** what I typed? I said that I have a problem with those feminists who are bigoted, sexist freaks with an agenda (uh, Catharine MacKinnon, Andrea Dworkin, **margin** come to mind), that I don’t hate _all women_ as I have been accused of. Yes, I read what you wrote, and I see no reference to radical feminists in the post to which I referred, just to KellyM. > [@](#): > > Where in that statement are you reading what you claim I just said? **KellyM** is a few fries short of a happy meal if she assumes that because _she_ has a disorder about her body and wants to change it, that my wanting to change something about my body is evidence that I obviously have the same disorder. I didn’t say anything about her or any other MTF transsexual being ‘not women’. I made no claim regarding your statement, I merely asked for clarity and pointed out that your statements could easily be construed as an attack on transsexuals. Just to be sure that I understand your position clearly, you are now saying that when you called KellyM a “freak”, that was a reference to her being a feminist, not a transsexual, correct? > [@](#): > > I said ‘I hate feminists, not all women.’ No, actually you made no reference whatsoever to feminists in that post. It was a direct attack on KellyM for what you percieve to be her hypocrisy. Are you now claiming that this attack was made because KellyM is a feminist? > [@](#): > > I do not hate all women. Your wording still hasin’t cleared up one of my questions. When you say “all women” here, do you include MTF transsexuals as women? > [@](#): > > So, if you must burn me at the stake, burn me for something I said. Don’t accuse me of hate speech because I think **KellyM** as an individal is a fucking asshole, because that’s got less than nothing to do with what gender **KellyM** is. What gender would that be? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/68 "2005-02-07T22:12:00Z")
> [@Mojo](#): > > No they didn’t. YOu’re confusing the names she mentioned with those who were at Seneca Falls. The names she mentioned are responsible for trying to turn porn into a civil rights violation. In fact, keep this thread in mind and Google “Germaine Greer” and “Rachel Padman” and behold the irony. Ah, but the thing is, she’s said herself that those are only a few examples of who she hates. She’s said that she hates feminists. Period. End of story. No further qualifications needed. Thus by her own comments she hates the women who made it possible for her to vote and own property and control her own reproduction. And, by her own comments, she apparently hates me and lord knows how many other women on this board and considers us to be bigoted, sexist, lie-spreading freaks. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/69 "2005-02-07T22:13:32Z")
Okay, let me see if I’ve got this straight. **catsix** has issues with how she looks. **KellyM** has previously had issues with how she looks. **KellyM** suggests that **catsix** get therapy to deal with her issues with how she looks. This makes **KellyM** a hypocrite. Is this more or less correct? Because I’m having trouble seeing where the hypocrisy comes in, unless **KellyM** herself has never had therapy to deal with her issues about how she looks. Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t people hoping to qualify for SRS have to undergo fairly extensive therapy before beginning treatments? Sounds to me like she’s not suggesting anything she has not already done herself, albeit for a radically different issue. Issues of tone or intent to insult aside, I don’t see how any accusation of hypocrisy applies. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/70 "2005-02-07T22:30:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Okay, let me see if I’ve got this straight. > > **catsix** has issues with how she looks. > > **KellyM** has previously had issues with how she looks. > > **KellyM** suggests that **catsix** get therapy to deal with her issues with how she looks. > > This makes **KellyM** a hypocrite. > > Is this more or less correct? Because I’m having trouble seeing where the hypocrisy comes in, unless **KellyM** herself has never had therapy to deal with her issues about how she looks. Well, it is not exactly correct. **KellyM** suggested that **catsix** get therapy **instead of** seeking physical change. It would be roughly equivalent to someone recommending psychotherapy to a transsexual **instead of** sex-reassignment surgery. Not “get therapy so you will be more comfortable to help you in losing weight/becoming a woman” but “get therapy to get over this stupid notion that you need to lose weight/become a woman”. The hypocrisy is saying “you want to lose weight? You must be crazy” but not accepting “you want to become a woman? You must be crazy”. Especially since losing weight is a much less radical body alteration than hormones or SRS. It just seemed a bit - well, ironic is the most polite term I can think of - for **KellyM** , of all people, advising someone else to learn to accept your body for what it was. If you see what I mean. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/71 "2005-02-07T23:02:08Z")
> [@](#): > > **Kaitlyn** said: > Just to be sure that I understand your position clearly, you are now saying that when you called KellyM a “freak”, that was a reference to her being a feminist, not a transsexual, correct? I consider her a freak because I think she is a hypocritical bigoted asshole. > [@](#): > > No, actually you made no reference whatsoever to feminists in that post. It was a direct attack on KellyM for what you percieve to be her hypocrisy. Are you now claiming that this attack was made because KellyM is a feminist? Pretty sure I mentioned feminists and specifically called them bigoted freaks. > [@](#): > > Your wording still hasin’t cleared up one of my questions. When you say “all women” here, do you include MTF transsexuals as women? Uh, yeah. They’re women. My opinion of them as individuals is formed the same way as my opinion about any individual though: their personal statements and attitudes as well as political leanings. > [@](#): > > What gender would that be? Female. Not that it matters. I’d still think **KellyM** is a fucking asshole even if she were a one-eyed flyin purple people eater, to borrow from the song. > [@](#): > > **CrazyCatLady** said: > Thus by her own comments she hates the women who made it possible for her to vote and own property and control her own reproduction. I owe the right to vote to those who passed the Constitutional amendment securing it, and the progressive thinking of states such as Wyoming, which allowed women the vote because they were desperate to get statehood. The shows put on by Alice Paul et al. may’ve been for a good cause, but they didn’t ratify the amendment. > [@](#): > > **Shodan** said: > KellyM suggested that catsix get therapy instead of seeking physical change. It would be roughly equivalent to someone recommending psychotherapy to a transsexual instead of sex-reassignment surgery. That’s exactly it. Maybe coming from you, more people will understand the point. It wasn’t ‘get therapy and lose weight right.’ It was ‘go see a shrink and learn to accept the size you are.’ ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/72 "2005-02-07T23:06:39Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Ah, but the thing is, she’s said herself that those are only a few examples of who she hates. She’s said that she hates feminists. Period. End of story. No further qualifications needed. Thus by her own comments she hates the women who made it possible for her to vote and own property and control her own reproduction. > > And, by her own comments, she apparently hates me and lord knows how many other women on this board and considers us to be bigoted, sexist, lie-spreading freaks. **Catsix** , would you mind clarifying this side issue? From my reading of your past posts, I had the impression that you hated how far the pendulum has swung in some areas, (i.e, past equality) and hated the feminists responsible for that. It seems that others feel you hate anyone who self-identifies as a feminist, regardless of their views, and including those “who made it possible for [you] to vote and own property and control [your] own reproduction”. It may also come down to differing definitions of feminist :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/73 "2005-02-07T23:23:26Z")
I don’t accept the notion that I have ‘feminists’ to thank for being able to vote, own property, have a job, or anything else for that matter. I do despise feminism and I have a pretty damn negative view of every feminist I’ve ever met because what I’ve encountered are people more interested in feeling like victims than dealing in facts. I think feminism is sexist, inherently, and want nothing whatsoever to do with it. People who call themselves feminists have tried to change my mind, and been unsuccessful. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/74 "2005-02-07T23:35:24Z")
Then you hate me. Look, I became a feminist because I _like_ men and because when I was a little girl back in the dark ages of the 1970’s, it seemed like boys got to do all the fun stuff. My cooking is dodgy, my cleaning is abysmal, although I can do some sewing and needlework. I go shopping when I need to buy something specific and I wear one pair of shoes to work. I don’t fit the traditional feminine stereotypes and I hated being forced into them when I was a little girl. Yes, I’ve felt tempted to write the odd letter to _Ms. Magazine_ saying “I’m straight and a feminist. Deal with it.” On the other hand, I was forced into home ec when I’d chosen to take shop back in junior high school and I didn’t like it. When I tried it again in high school, they gave in. The stuff we did in shop was a hell of a lot more fun. Yes, there are shrill, strident feminists. From what I’ve seen, every group has its share of extremists the mainstream of the group wish would just shut up, whether its Operation Rescue, or Act Up or any other fringe group you care to mention. Come on! I’m a hard-core Christian. Do you really think I don’t get sick of the fringe elements of my religion? On the other hand, saying I’m a man-hater because I’m a feminist is just something I find every bit as ignorant and offensive as I would an accusation that I hated non-Christians because I’m a Christian. Now, if you’ll excuse me, two gentlemen are due shortly, one of whom is a Wiccan. They are two of my closest friends and two of the people I love most. They also make the necessity of tackling laundry a lot more palatable. On the other hand, it was much more fun going hiking with both of them last weekend. CJ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/75 "2005-02-07T23:40:01Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > From what I’ve seen, every group has its share of extremists the mainstream of the group wish would just shut up… Yes, but an outsider would have to _make an effort_ to see the mainstream of any group. Only the fringy-weirdoes get TV time. Normal, boring feminists don’t make the news. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/76 "2005-02-07T23:48:47Z")
I suppose NOW is ‘fringey weirdos’? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/77 "2005-02-07T23:49:05Z")
Yup, cooking dinner, doing our jobs, raising kids…in other words, living our normal everyday lives…isn’t newsworthy. I am a feminist, because I don’t believe that having two X chromosomes instead of one X and one Y makes me anything less than equal when it comes to doing my job or voting or paying taxes or running for office, etc. How that makes me sexist, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/78 "2005-02-08T00:00:44Z")
_Oh pluheeeeese_! NOW lost touch with reality in the 1980s and never found it’s way back. Can’t you pick a better target than that? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/79 "2005-02-08T01:35:11Z")
So, now that it’s clear that I didn’t commit hate speech against transgendered people, you’re going to try to continue a fight over my opinion of feminism? It’s bee done. Search for it. I’m not doing it again. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/80 "2005-02-08T02:17:49Z")
In line with what **Siege** said, Tomato Nation’s [Yes. You Are](http://www.tomatonation.com/youare.shtml). The piece is worth reading in its entirety, but here is a quote: > [@](#): > > Yes. You are. You are a feminist. If you believe in, support, look fondly on, hope for, and/or work towards equality of the sexes, you are a feminist. Period. It’s more complicated than that – of course it is. And yet…it’s exactly that simple. It has nothing to do with your sexual preference or your sense of humor or your fashion sense or your charitable donations, or what pronouns you use in official correspondence, or whether you think Andrea Dworkin is full of crap, or how often you read Bust or Ms. – or, actually, whether you’ve got a vagina. In the end, it’s not about that. It is about political, economic, and social equality of the sexes, and it is about claiming that definition on its own terms, instead of qualifying it because you don’t want anyone to think that you don’t shave your pits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607.md?page=5)