# catsix are you serious? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607 "2005-02-06T03:41:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/81 "2005-02-08T02:25:11Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > So, now that it’s clear that I didn’t commit hate speech against transgendered people, you’re going to try to continue a fight over my opinion of feminism? > > It’s bee done. Search for it. > > I’m not doing it again. Who asked you to? _shrug_ You’re the one that called ne a feminist. I don’t have a problem with that…I am. Frothing? Eh. Not so much. Just because I’m as unmoving in my beliefs as you are in yours doesn’t make me fringe. So, unless you’re willing to be stuck with that label, I wouldn’t go tagging it on women who disagree with you about feminism and all its facets. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/82 "2005-02-08T02:58:01Z")
My experience with **catsix** in a few rape threads is not that she hates women, but is that she hates feminists, to the extent of a pretty strong implication of intellectual dishonesty to anyone (my own Y chromozome possessing self included, I felt) who dared to agree with such ‘feminist’ views. The concentration on feminists such as Dworkin and MacKinnon while ignoring whole swathes of writers and thinkers (such as Ruth Bader Ginsburg, for example), who see the motivation for feminism as ensuring women possess equal opportunities and receive equal rewards for equal work, shows the bias that she brings to the table over this. Now, I think she is flat out wrong on this, but I think translating it to hatred of all women is pushing it too far. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/83 "2005-02-08T03:32:46Z")
**catsix** and I disagree A LOT. Before I actually started talking and interacting with her, I admit that there were quite a few posts of hers that made me think she was crazy. However, in interacting with her, I have come to realize that **catsix** is not a shrill hater of all women and she does not hate transsexuals. She hates **KellyM** , not transsexuals in general. Thank you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/84 "2005-02-08T03:32:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That would’ve been much more clear if the fact that she was a transsexual didn’t figure in your insult. Generally, when someone is insulting someone else, they pick out the issues that person is sensitive to. If I was pissed off enough at a fat person, I might call them a “fat sack of shit”, but that doesn’t reflect an overall hatred of fat people. It’s just the easiest tool to insult them with. Since this thread has hardly been free of insults, I don’t see how catsix can be held particularly accountable. > [@KellyM](#): > > **catsix** has, in prior posts, made it quite clear that she believes that gender is determined by genitals, and that taking a knife to them doesn’t change anything (except that it make you a freak). She’s made it quite clear that anybody who has (or once had) a penis is not “enough like her” to be considered a woman. But then, since it’s been established by you guys that catsix hates all women, doesn’t that mean she holds you in particularly _high_ esteem if she doesn’t consider your transitioning to be valid? Of course, nothing she’s said here confirms your assertions anyway. > [@Mojo](#): > > No they didn’t. YOu’re confusing the names she mentioned with those who were at Seneca Falls. The names she mentioned are responsible for trying to turn porn into a civil rights violation. In fact, keep this thread in mind and Google “Germaine Greer” and “Rachel Padman” and behold the irony. I certainly can’t muster up much sympathy for the Andrea Dworkins of the world myself - interestingly, Dworkin’s written that gay male porn (which I’ll acknowledge as one of my occasional pastimes) is also a form of sexual assault upon women. I’m not sure why either. If you guys piling on catsix consider Dworkin to be a brave fighter for women’s rights, it’s your perogative. Personally, I can’t support the kind of “feminism” that considers women incapable of making their own decisions about their lives, or the kind of shrieking harpies who use the excuse of “feminism” to wage a gender war. I _do_ support the more mainstream kind of feminism. But since that kind has been invisible in the media for about 40 years, and since they took a vacation from feminist academic circles during the 1970s and 80s, I can’t really fault anyone who’s developed a view of feminism that doesn’t gibe with my own beliefs. It’d be hard not to. > [@Shodan](#): > > KellyM suggested that catsix get therapy instead of seeking physical change. It would be roughly equivalent to someone recommending psychotherapy to a transsexual instead of sex-reassignment surgery. Not “get therapy so you will be more comfortable to help you in losing weight/becoming a woman” but “get therapy to get over this stupid notion that you need to lose weight/become a woman”. > > The hypocrisy is saying “you want to lose weight? You must be crazy” but not accepting “you want to become a woman? You must be crazy”. Especially since losing weight is a much less radical body alteration than hormones or SRS. > > It just seemed a bit - well, ironic is the most polite term I can think of - for KellyM, of all people, advising someone else to learn to accept your body for what it was. If you see what I mean. Yep. It’s certainly ironic that KellyM assumes the role of judge over catsix, since I imagine she wouldn’t react warmly to some paternalistic person asserting that authority over _her_. > [@Kaitlyn](#): > > What gender would that be? Again, unless my reading comprehension skills have disappeared completely, this is a strawman. > [@Siege](#): > > Yes, there are shrill, strident feminists. From what I’ve seen, every group has its share of extremists the mainstream of the group wish would just shut up, whether its Operation Rescue, or Act Up or any other fringe group you care to mention. The problem is that the ultra-extremists like Dworkin and MacKinnon were allowed to set the feminist agenda for twenty years or so. If the anti-abortion groups were led by the fanatics who murder doctors, rather than condemning them, I’d be pretty unwilling to give any of them the time of day. Personally, I think the great harm perpetrated by the extremists is the misdirection they’ve achieved - by teaming up with the fundies in the Holy War Against Porn, they’ve prevented real progress and done a great job of discrediting a movement that, again, I agree with. > [@The Devil's Grandmother](#): > > Yes, but an outsider would have to make an effort to see the mainstream of any group. Only the fringy-weirdoes get TV time. Normal, boring feminists don’t make the news. Especially if the fringy weirdos are the ones setting the intellectual direction of the movement, as they were in the feminist movement until quite recently. Hey, I don’t share catsix’s views on feminism, as I’ve stated. But I can muster up some sympathy given some of the excesses (and some of the sheer insanity) that “feminists” have dedicated themselves to. Either way, it doesn’t indicate that catsix hates all transgendered people, and it’s a falsehood to claim she does. KellyM was, at very least, extremely insulting to catsix, and it astonishes me that you guys won’t acknowledge that. > [@catsix](#): > > So, now that it’s clear that I didn’t commit hate speech against transgendered people, you’re going to try to continue a fight over my opinion of feminism? > > It’s bee done. Search for it. > > I’m not doing it again. That seems to be what they’re doing. Man, you people don’t have to agree with catsix. You don’t have to like her. But Christ, what do you stand to gain by doing this? Some people have different views than you. Hopefully, one day, y’all will learn to live with that. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/85 "2005-02-08T04:25:29Z")
It should be pointed out that I never suggested that **catsix** seek therapy in lieu of losing weight. That’s a pure fiction. I merely suggested that she might benefit from talking to a counselor about her body issues. Of course, I should not expect someone who hates me to accurately represent what I say. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/86 "2005-02-08T05:10:29Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > It should be pointed out that I never suggested that **catsix** seek therapy in lieu of losing weight. That’s a pure fiction. > > I merely suggested that she might benefit from talking to a counselor about her body issues. > > Of course, I should not expect someone who hates me to accurately represent what I say. You are not a psychiatrist (well, perhaps you are. But you are not _her_ psychiatrist.) You don’t have the capacity to diagnose “body image issues” over the internet, and you don’t have the authority to judge whether catsix’s decisions about her own body are valid or not. But by chalking her decision to lose weight up to body image issues, you have claimed that authority. I have a problem with the notion that catsix shouldn’t be allowed to do what she chooses with her body. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/87 "2005-02-08T05:35:08Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > It should be pointed out that I never suggested that **catsix** seek therapy in lieu of losing weight. That’s a pure fiction. > > I merely suggested that she might benefit from talking to a counselor about her body issues. > > Of course, I should not expect someone who hates me to accurately represent what I say. So you allege that “seek therapy” does not equal “talking to a counselor”. :dubious: Personally, I would pritnear use the two phrases interchangeably. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/88 "2005-02-08T05:54:57Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > You are not a psychiatrist (well, perhaps you are. But you are not _her_ psychiatrist.) You don’t have the capacity to diagnose “body image issues” over the internet, and you don’t have the authority to judge whether catsix’s decisions about her own body are valid or not. But by chalking her decision to lose weight up to body image issues, you have claimed that authority. I have a problem with the notion that catsix shouldn’t be allowed to do what she chooses with her body. Oh FFS. Plenty of people suggest to other Dopers that they seek counseling. Not everyone flies off the handle when the suggestion is made to them. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/89 "2005-02-08T06:03:05Z")
So waitaminute. I am to understand that by suggesting that someone see a counselor (or seek therapy, which means the damn same thing), I am restricting that person’s free will and judging the validity of their own decisions? I never realized that the phrase “Hey, I think you need to talk to someone about that” was so powerful. It’s not like I called the Psycho Police and had her rounded up or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/90 "2005-02-08T06:12:37Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > It’s not like I called the Psycho Police and had her rounded up or anything. And it’s not like she sued you for false imprisonment either. She returned an insulting suggestion with an even more insulting response. That’s how things work. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/91 "2005-02-08T06:27:48Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > Of course, I should not expect someone who hates me to accurately represent what I say. No, I would imagine that someone who hates you might not accurately represent what you say. OTOH, you stated earlier in this thread: > [@KellyM](#): > > catsix has, in prior posts, made it quite clear that she believes that gender is determined by genitals, and that taking a knife to them doesn’t change anything (except that it make you a freak). She’s made it quite clear that anybody who has (or once had) a penis is not “enough like her” to be considered a woman. Now catsix says that she didn’t say this, and you’ve ignore at least one request for a cite already. Do you have one, or is this another example of “someone who hates someone else not accurately representing what they said”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/92 "2005-02-08T08:04:41Z")
> [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > In line with what **Siege** said, Tomato Nation’s [Yes. You Are](http://www.tomatonation.com/youare.shtml). There are so many differing definitions of feminism, that it isn’t surprising that so much disagreement occurs. I personally, do not agree with the definition you quoted, but that is a topic for a different thread, so I won’t continue the feminism hijack any further. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/93 "2005-02-08T08:12:00Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > So waitaminute. I am to understand that by suggesting that someone see a counselor (or seek therapy, which means the damn same thing), I am restricting that person’s free will and judging the validity of their own decisions? I never realized that the phrase “Hey, I think you need to talk to someone about that” was so powerful. It’s not like I called the Psycho Police and had her rounded up or anything. If so, reread your own post #85. You said that you **never suggested** one, but **merely suggested** the other, and above state them to mean the same. :smack: 😕 WTF are you really trying say that you said, and what are you saying that you didn’t say? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/94 "2005-02-08T08:17:56Z")
> [@Essured](#): > > There are so many differing definitions of feminism, that it isn’t surprising that so much disagreement occurs. I personally, do not agree with the definition you quoted, but that is a topic for a different thread, so I won’t continue the feminism hijack any further. **catsix** ’s hatred of feminism or feminists (whichever or both) seems so categorical that I think bringing up one like that - that’s the one I use, too - makes sense. I’m not sure **catsix** has ever explained what feminism means to her, much less why it tickets her off, I just know she uses a lot of Rush-style comments in complaining about it. ---
**Author:** ![Sofis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Sofis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofis)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/95 "2005-02-08T08:20:02Z")
> [@Essured](#): > > There are so many differing definitions of feminism, that it isn’t surprising that so much disagreement occurs. I personally, do not agree with the definition you quoted, but that is a topic for a different thread, so I won’t continue the feminism hijack any further. Well, damn. Here I type up a nice and properly reasoned response to that post (summary: disagreement, from the non-feminist side) and you have to go and remind me not further a hijack before I can post it :). ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/96 "2005-02-08T14:05:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **catsix** ’s hatred of feminism or feminists (whichever or both) seems so categorical that I think bringing up one like that - that’s the one I use, too - makes sense. I’m not sure **catsix** has ever explained what feminism means to her, much less why it tickets her off, I just know she uses a lot of Rush-style comments in complaining about it. And it’s not her right to categorically hate feminism? What’s your point here? She has an opinion, it differs mightily from yours, and you wish to drag her through the streets for having the audacity to disagree with you? Of course she seems unreasonable to you. People who disagree with us always seem unreasonable, just like those who drive faster than us are always maniacs. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/97 "2005-02-08T17:05:21Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > If so, reread your own post #85. You said that you **never suggested** one, but **merely suggested** the other, and above state them to mean the same. > :smack: 😕 > > WTF are you really trying say that you said, and what are you saying that you didn’t say? What she said was: > [@](#): > > It should be pointed out that I never suggested that catsix seek therapy _in lieu of losing weight_. Italics mine. I believe you’re focusing on “I never suggested that catsix seek therapy” and ignoring the rest of the sentence. **KellyM** could certainly suggest that **catsix** seek therapy without suggesting that she do this _instead of_ losing weight. I haven’t seen her deny telling **catsix** to get therapy/see a counselor/whatever, she’s just denied the “in lieu of losing weight” bit. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/98 "2005-02-08T17:07:48Z")
The ‘suggestion’ was to get therapy and learn to accept my body as is. To me that meant ‘Don’t lose weight, just learn to like being fat.’ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/99 "2005-02-08T17:41:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **KellyM** suggested that **catsix** get therapy **instead of** seeking physical change. It would be roughly equivalent to someone recommending psychotherapy to a transsexual **instead of** sex-reassignment surgery. Not “get therapy so you will be more comfortable to help you in losing weight/becoming a woman” but “get therapy to get over this stupid notion that you need to lose weight/become a woman”. > > The hypocrisy is saying “you want to lose weight? You must be crazy” but not accepting “you want to become a woman? You must be crazy”. Especially since losing weight is a much less radical body alteration than hormones or SRS. The difference that I see here is that, unlike someone claiming to be transgendered, if someone is complaining about their weight, it is possible (although certainly not foolproof) to tell if their concern has merit just by looking at them. If Calista Flockhart is complaining that she’s too fat, you don’t need to be a psychiatrist to tell that her problems are not in her thighs. **catsix** posted some pics of herself in one of the MPSIMS picture threads a while back. As I recall, she didn’t seem to be unhealthily over-weight in those. Of course, maybe she’s gained weight since then, or maybe the pictures were not a good representation of her body type. Or maybe I’m completely confusing her with someone else. I just don’t think the two situations are entirely comprable. > [@Weirddave](#): > > Now catsix says that she didn’t say this, and you’ve ignored at least one request for a cite already. Do you have one, or is this another example of “someone who hates someone else not accurately representing what they said”? She might be referring to **catsix** ’s posts in this [monster of a thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=173009&page=1&pp=50) **catsix** ’s first post is [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3216961&postcount=158), and while I don’t think she comes across as hating transsexuals, she sure doesn’t come across as terribly undertanding. Or stable, really. > [@Excalibre](#): > > And it’s not her right to categorically hate feminism? What’s your point here? She has an opinion, it differs mightily from yours, and you wish to drag her through the streets for having the audacity to disagree with you? Or he just wants to, y’know, _debate_ her. It is sort of what we’re here to do, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607/100 "2005-02-08T18:38:10Z")
Of course she’s free to have her own opinion about feminism. And likewise, I’m free to tell her that her opinion is full of shit, since most of her claims about feminists are hyperbole, if not outright lies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-are-you-serious/288607.md?page=6)