# Catsix, STFU! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 16, 2007, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366 "2007-04-16T18:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/121 "2007-04-16T23:55:00Z")
[QUOTE=JRDelirious] **nyctea** , I’ll admit **Ex-Tank** came across as a bit TOO cocky in his reply. [/QUOTE] A bit? A _bit?_ That’s all I gets for my effort? [Bender] Then I say to hell with you, Sir! Bite my shiny metal gun safe! [/Bender] 😛 Upon reflection, I’ll admit: the probability is greater than zero, but low enough to be, for all practical purposes, zero. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/122 "2007-04-17T00:08:37Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] For those who would like to see a bunch of drunk and stoned college kids toting guns around with them all day, I wonder how you think they’re going to be able to tell who the maniac is and who’s just another “good guy” with a gun. Should they all just shoot to to kill anybody else with a gun? Is this really a recipe for peace and order? [/QUOTE] Hmm, last time I was a college student I was 35 with two kids and 10 years of sobriety (and almost 20 years unstoned) and quite capable of telling a maniac that gunned down 20+ people in cold blood from a good guy. Stick to religion, you sound like a psychopath in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/123 "2007-04-17T00:16:00Z")
[QUOTE=anamnesis] And seriously, Diogenes, get over yourself. Airman doesn’t need to justify his second amendment right to you. [/quote] I never said he did (and the Supreme Court has never decided whether the 2nd Amendment applies to private citizens. If pushed I think they probably would decide that way, but it isn’t really precise to say that it’s a settled right). > [@](#): > > If anything, you need to justify your presumptions about him, or me, or any other gun owner. No I don’t. First Amendment. > [@](#): > > If you’d ever actually met a gun owner even half as responsible as Airman or ExTank or myself, maybe you’d stop being condescending towards them and labelling them chickenshit fetishists. But then again, you’re Diogenes, so maybe not. What makes you think I don’t know any responsible gun owners? Of course I know gunowners. I used to go target shooting with my brother-in-law until he passed away recently. I don’t have a problem with gun owners in general and I actually enjoy target shooting, but I am creeped out by people who feel the need to carry guns around with them everywhere they go. I think that’s clownish. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/124 "2007-04-17T00:17:56Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] Hmm, last time I was a college student I was 35 with two kids and 10 years of sobriety (and almost 20 years unstoned) and quite capable of telling a maniac that gunned down 20+ people in cold blood from a good guy [/QUOTE] How would you be capable of telling the difference? Does a maniac with a gun look different from a frat boy with a gun? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/125 "2007-04-17T00:22:31Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I never said he did (and the Supreme Court has never decided whether the 2nd Amendment applies to private citizens. If pushed I think they probably would decide that way, but it isn’t really precise to say that it’s a settled right). [/QUOTE] Well, for many it is a settled right. It’s not only the Second Amendment that people rely on here. There’s also the many state constitutions that give citizens of those states the unambiguous right to private ownership of firearms. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/126 "2007-04-17T00:23:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] How would you be capable of telling the difference? Does a maniac with a gun look different from a frat boy with a gun? [/QUOTE] The maniac will have the slavering jaw, the bloodshot eye, the trembling hand, and the unkempt hair. The frat boy will have a letter jacket, a crew cut, a fresh shave, a clear complexion and a wide smile. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/127 "2007-04-17T00:32:02Z")
[QUOTE=Orbifold] Arm the students! Because university students aren’t known for experimenting with drugs, or for being under large amounts of stress and pressure. And they all have training in responding to armed attackers in chaotic and crowded situations. Brilliant! [/QUOTE] Heh, I probably would have been shot to death my senior year during a dispute over a video game. And yes, Mr. Thompson, it was a violent game… ---
**Author:** ![enigm4tic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@enigm4tic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigm4tic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/128 "2007-04-17T01:01:15Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] The maniac will have the slavering jaw, the bloodshot eye, the trembling hand, and the unkempt hair. The frat boy will have a letter jacket, a crew cut, a fresh shave, a clear complexion and a wide smile. [/QUOTE] either way, if he’s wandering around shooting unarmed people, and you’re armed, it’s a good bet he’s not clairvoyant enough to preemptively be shooting other people about to draw their guns and shoot each other, and you’re clearly in danger of becoming a target yourself, and can reasonably claim self-defense, as well as potentially saving other lives the maniac/frat boy might have taken. > [@DtC](#): > > For those who would like to see a bunch of drunk and stoned college kids toting guns around with them all day, I wonder how you think they’re going to be able to tell who the maniac is and who’s just another “good guy” with a gun. Should they all just shoot to to kill anybody else with a gun? Is this really a recipe for peace and order? FWIW I at least have already acknowledged the possibility for a clusterfuck like that. OTOH as I also pointed out, in many situations, such as a guy bursting in to a room (or say, on campus, at McDonalds) and firing in to a crowd is clearly not a “good guy”, and most competent adults, I think, would be a fairly good judge of that. On top of that, a concealed carrier coming upon a confused situation (2 men already engaged in a shoot-out, a standoff, etc.) would do well (and a large majority of carriers should realize this too) to not engage at all. Thus, I’d have no problem with a situational safety training course as a requirement for a CCP, since one would be perfectly right in saying that everybody carrying a concealed weapon should have at least a working knowledge of dangerous situations. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/129 "2007-04-17T01:17:20Z")
[QUOTE=enigm4tic] either way, if he’s wandering around shooting unarmed people, and you’re armed, it’s a good bet he’s not clairvoyant enough to preemptively be shooting other people about to draw their guns and shoot each other, and you’re clearly in danger of becoming a target yourself, and can reasonably claim self-defense, as well as potentially saving other lives the maniac/frat boy might have taken. [/QUOTE] I’m going to expand on my previous idea then. Instead of having people walking around carrying guns, the better approach would be to have a large number of people in the school wearing bulletproof vests. When the gunman comes in, the armored people rush in and overpower him. Et voila! I would volunteer to wear a bulletproof vest one day a week if the school loaned it to me. ---
**Author:** ![enigm4tic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@enigm4tic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigm4tic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/130 "2007-04-17T01:18:01Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] I’m going to expand on my previous idea then. Instead of having people walking around carrying guns, the better approach would be to have a large number of people in the school wearing bulletproof vests. When the gunman comes in, the armored people rush in and overpower him. Et voila! I would volunteer to wear a bulletproof vest one day a week if the school loaned it to me. [/QUOTE] what if you loaned bullet proof vests to the shooters? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/131 "2007-04-17T01:25:05Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] I’m going to expand on my previous idea then. Instead of having people walking around carrying guns, the better approach would be to have a large number of people in the school wearing bulletproof vests. When the gunman comes in, the armored people rush in and overpower him. Et voila! I would volunteer to wear a bulletproof vest one day a week if the school loaned it to me. [/QUOTE] Arnold. You’re thinking in Swiss terms. Give it up. This is America. You know. You live here. [sub]Well, actually, you don’t. You live in la la land. Same thing.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/132 "2007-04-17T01:26:34Z")
A guy coming in to a school ready to shoot a bunch of people would be able to get his own bullet-proof vest anyway before he shows up at the school. Anyway I realize my proposal is not practical. But if people are really that worried about gunmans coming in school and blasting away, there are other defensive measures (probably more effective) that can be taken besides having members of the student body carrying weapons to class. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/133 "2007-04-17T01:28:35Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] The maniac will have the slavering jaw, the bloodshot eye, the trembling hand, and the unkempt hair. The frat boy will have a letter jacket, a crew cut, a fresh shave, a clear complexion and a wide smile. [/QUOTE] And the true “good guy” will be easily discernible by his expert marksmanship and Boy Scout-like attire. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/134 "2007-04-17T01:29:12Z")
[QUOTE=ExTank] No, I’m not perfect. But perfection isn’t required. Besides, if “perfection” were the standard for anything difficult or dangerous, we’d never issue a single driver’s license, or immediately revoke it after the first speeding ticket. “Perfection” may be required in _your_ mind; most of the rest of us mere mortals settle for reasonable, sensible precautions. [/QUOTE] Guns were designed for one purpose: to kill living things. Cars were designed for a non-deadly purpose. It’s a lot easier to avoid deadly mistakes with a car. With a gun, you may only get one shot, literally. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/135 "2007-04-17T01:29:25Z")
samclem - to many foreigners, la la land (beautiful sunny so. cal.) _is_ the USA! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/136 "2007-04-17T01:35:55Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] samclem - to many foreigners, la la land (beautiful sunny so. cal.) _is_ the USA! [/QUOTE] Spoken like a true airhead. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/137 "2007-04-17T01:36:15Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] A guy coming in to a school ready to shoot a bunch of people would be able to get his own bullet-proof vest anyway before he shows up at the school. Anyway I realize my proposal is not practical. But if people are really that worried about gunmans coming in school and blasting away, there are other defensive measures (probably more effective) that can be taken besides having members of the student body carrying weapons to class. [/QUOTE] A whackjob intent on killing as many people as possible is going to find workarounds for any safeguards you put in place. One just has to look at the current clusterfuck in Iraq to see that. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/138 "2007-04-17T01:37:18Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Spoken like a true airhead. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Remember–I love you, respect you. Venerate you as a former Admin. But, you DO live in Cally. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/139 "2007-04-17T02:00:55Z")
I’ll be honest with ya… when I first heard about the VT shooting, I was _horrified_. But ten seconds later I though to myself, “The gun control crowd is going to use this as an excuse to push more gun control.” I am a gun owner. Guns mean a **lot** to me. \*\*Catsix \*\* is right… the gun control crowd will use this as an excuse to push more gun control. Yes, it is a terrible tragedy what happened today at VT. But a lot more innocent people will die if the gun grabbers get their way. I will fight them every step of the way. ---
**Author:** ![enigm4tic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@enigm4tic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigm4tic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366/140 "2007-04-17T02:04:54Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] And the true “good guy” will be easily discernible by his expert marksmanship and **Boy Scout-like attire.** [/QUOTE] > **[Witness survives by pretending to be dead - CNN.com](https://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html)** > > A gunman who killed at least 30 people in one of two shootings on the campus of Virginia Tech was dressed "almost like a Boy Scout," said a student who survived by pretending to lie dead on a classroom floor. [Quote=CNN] A gunman who killed at least 30 people at one of two shootings on the campus of Virginia Tech Monday was dressed “almost like a Boy Scout,” said a woman who survived by pretending to lie dead on a classroom floor. [/quote] guess not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-stfu/400366.md?page=8)