# Catsix, You're a Moron With a Persecution Complex and I'm Sick of It **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 9, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959 "2004-08-09T01:06:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/41 "2004-08-09T11:11:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Why? Because **catsix** just couldn’t quit whining and attacking people for imaginary insults. **Marley23** , I just read through this whole Pitting, especially our OP, all over again. You offer no evidence of **catsix** whining, and my experience of her is that she states where she’s at and if you don’t like it that’s your problem. I guess that’s a problem for you, since you started this. Ironic, that most pittings turn back on the OP’er… The only whining and crying “I am a victim” I see here is yours. You don’t like **catsix**'s opinions? You don’t have to read them. She’s got a right to give them. How come you’re so reactive and upset so much? Have you been forgetting your medications? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/42 "2004-08-09T12:50:29Z")
> [@Snakespirit](#): > > Aha! So you admit you are not better than **catsix**! He doesn’t just “admit” it, you dimbulb; he _proclaims_ it. It’s what he was saying all along in the original thread linked to in the OP. > [@marley23](#): > > **I don’t think I’m better than you** , and I never would have even asked the damn question if you hadn’t insisted everybody who contributes to the death of animals is a hypocrite for trying to reduce that amount. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/43 "2004-08-09T13:18:11Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Isn’t it a little dishonest to say that a person’s not responsible for the death of something else because they didn’t want it to die while still supporting the industry that brought about its demise? Of course not. There’s a big difference between direct and indirect responsibility. Blaming vegetarians for the indirect slaughter of small animals is a red herring; we all cause suffering indirectly no matter what we eat. I could grow all my own organic vegetables and be careful not to harm any mice or gophers, and then for all I know, the guy I buy my newspaper from goes out and spends my money at the cockfights. For that matter, if you pay income tax, you know for a fact that part of your money is used to kill **human beings** , including some innocent civilians. Does that make you a murderer? Moral vegetarians decline to support the industry that exists specifically to slaughter animals. They act on the level on which they have direct responsibility. The fact that some animals are incidentally killed in vegetable farming is unfortunate, but inevitable, and _not_ being vegetarian certainly wouldn’t reduce that toll at all. > [@](#): > > Not that it’s anybody’s business here, but I don’t get constipated. Don’t think I have ever been, actually. Glad to hear it. I guess that stick up your butt has been good for something after all. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/44 "2004-08-09T13:20:16Z")
So my opinion about vegetarians who drone endlessly about meat eaters killing ‘innocent animals’ doesn’t apply to **Marley23**. If he’s not one of those people who harps about the innocent animals, that’s _fine_. Other posters do like to trot out the often used and emotionally laden ‘innocent animals do not die at the hands of vegetarians’ argument, and I vehemently disagree with those people, because not only is it dishonest, it’s used as an emotional plea of feeling sorry for certain types (although not all types) of animals. When I start discussing self-righteous vegetarians who condemn meat eaters, Marley immediately seemed to take it as if I meant ‘Marley, you are a self righteous vegetarian.’ A debate in GD about vegetarianism in general does not specifically have to deal _only with the posters in that thread_ does it? Outside experience with other vegetarians (such as those who hand out ‘UnHappy Meals’ and carry signs and shout things like ‘Meat is murder.’) shouldn’t be mentioned unless a vegetarian in that thread brought them up? There _are_ such militant vegetarians out there. Those are the kinds of vegetarians I take issue with, along with those who smugly (and wrongly) state that absolutely no animals die to support their diet. I’m still not seeing a problem. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/45 "2004-08-09T13:23:39Z")
Oh, another subset of vegetarians that piss me off: the ones who rail endlessly about the cruelty of cattle farming for beef, but feel no guilt at all sporting leather shoes and leather jackets. I’m related to one of those, and I can barely talk to her anymore. She’ll sit around at a family dinner giving everyone shit about the meat on their plate while wearing her leather skirt. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/46 "2004-08-09T13:27:48Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Oh, another subset of vegetarians that piss me off: the ones who rail endlessly about the cruelty of cattle farming for beef, but feel no guilt at all sporting leather shoes and leather jackets. > > I’m related to one of those, and I can barely talk to her anymore. She’ll sit around at a family dinner giving everyone shit about the meat on their plate while wearing her leather skirt. SHHHH!!! Don’t let PETA hear this!!! Great point! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/47 "2004-08-09T13:27:55Z")
I’m just stunned at how the concept of **reducing** the number of animals killed can be turned into an all-or-nothing situation - if you’re eating vegetables, you’re still murdering little animals, so all you vegetarians are hypocrites. Reductio ad absurdum. Aside from the rare idiot, even Jains (who try to avoid stepping on insects, say prayers in repentance for the occasional tiny deaths they cause, etc.) don’t consider themselves pure of conscience in this aspect. You can feed more humans with the farmland used to grow vegetables than with the farmland used to grow feed for animals that are to be turned into food. More efficient land use, plus fewer animals die. But I suppose I’m just a hypocrite since I cook meat for friends plus I haven’t up and died from starvation due to refusing to harm an animal in any way, or some nonsense like that. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/48 "2004-08-09T13:31:22Z")
> [@](#): > > **Ferret Herder** said: > if you’re eating vegetables, you’re still murdering little animals, so all you vegetarians are hypocrites. No, it’s only a peeve of mine if you sit around calling other people murderers for eating meat while ignoring the fact that animals are dying for your convenience also. If being a vegetarian makes you happy, then be a vegetarian. I just don’t want to hear about how pure and wonderful and in tune with nature and free of animal killing it is. Especially not every day, and especially not from _vegetarians like my cousin_ who won’t shut the fuck up about meat being murder but her 300$ Italian leather shoes are not. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/49 "2004-08-09T13:32:27Z")
Fine, **catsix** , you can’t stand proselytizing vegetarians and you have medical conditions that mean you more or less have to eat loads of meat. I can understand this. But since there _were_ no proselytizing vegetarians in that other thread, couldn’t you just have toned it down? Or started a Pit thread about proselytizing vegetarians? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/50 "2004-08-09T13:35:46Z")
Are we now only allowed to discuss things in GD if someone in that thread is an example of the type of person we’re talking about? Is that how it works? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/51 "2004-08-09T13:40:54Z")
Probably not, but it comes off as a huge non sequitur if you do. “I like vinyl interiors in cars.” “Me too, I used to have a leather interior but I prefer vinyl.” “You frothing-at-the-mouth leather interior haters make me sick!” [Pause while everyone looks around, trying to figure out where that came from.] ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/52 "2004-08-09T13:45:35Z")
Did I accuse anyone in that thread specifically when I first posted of being one of the proselytizing vegetarian types? No? I said that I don’t mind vegetarians at all as long as they aren’t in my face. Then \*\* Marley\*\* got his panties in a twist. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/53 "2004-08-09T13:47:27Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Are we now only allowed to discuss things in GD if someone in that thread is an example of the type of person we’re talking about? > > Is that how it works? Well, what is the point of arguing against people not in the thread? It’s like everybody else is sitting in a circle debating except you, who is yelling out the window. Although it looked like in that thread you would pull in one of your “militant vegetarians” whenever the agument was not going your way. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/54 "2004-08-09T13:51:01Z")
No, but we do appreciate when someone posts something that’s actually relevant to the discussion. You contributed what you were going to contribute with your first few posts. After that it was all “pretending that your choices are optimal” and “pretend their choices are better than mine” and “self-righteous vegetarians who think they’re somehow able to live without being bad, evil animal killers” and “trying to prove you’re better than me” and that shit. No-one was doing that. Really. Debating whether or not a vegetarian diet reduces the suffering is fine and good and on-topic and everything, but this was just obnoxious and self-obsessed. If someone asks me why I don’t eat meat, I answer that part of it is for health reasons and part of it is for moral reasons. If that person, or indeed anyone else in the vicinity, decides that this means I’m trying to judge them or put them down or pretend I’m better than they, then so be it. Not my problem. I just wish they could whine elsewhere. If they feel like I’m better than they, they should stop eating meat. If they don’t, fine, Neither do I. Do you know what I would really like? Really, really, _really_ like? To be able to sit down with my relatives and have dinner without having to endure endless questioning and discussion about my dietary choices. I stopped eating meat 16 months ago, I’ve never spoken a word about it unless I was asked, and I have never proselytized in the slightest. And yet, they won’t fucking leave it alone. The next step for me is to simply stop attending family dinners, because it’s just an annoying chore for me now. Now, imagine that I popped into a thread sounding obnoxious and assuming every meat-eater was like they are. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/55 "2004-08-09T13:51:54Z")
> [@](#): > > **Balduran** said: > Well, what is the point of arguing against people not in the thread? Uh? What? I brought up the fact that vegetarians often use the emotional and incorrect plea that their diet does not result in the death of animals. Someone else took offense. Then we have **yosemite** ’s input, which was basically a parody of me. Don’t know what the hell that was attempting to accomplish other than accusing me of attacking people I never attacked. Whatever, though. My opinion of the ‘innocent animals’ argument is that it’s still a bunch of hyper emotional bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/56 "2004-08-09T15:03:37Z")
**catsix** , you have all those dietary restrictions and can’t have a lot of carbs? I thought you loved beer and Primanti’s, missed the U-cut at Subway, and ate soft carbs as a newborn? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/57 "2004-08-09T15:51:57Z")
Having just finished rereading _Catcher in the Rye_, I just wanted to say that this part of the OP… > [@Marley23](#): > > So you dropped ‘ironic’ and started a Holden Caulfield-esque crusade against the ‘hypocrites.’ Of course, J.D. Salinger won awards and acclaim for making up Holden. If an author had made you up, the critics would beat his ass to a bloody pulp. Reasonable replies were wasted on you. I should’ve just gone to the store and bought you some planks and nails to help you with the fucking cross. …just killed me. Really. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/58 "2004-08-09T17:14:54Z")
**Priceguy** basically articulated my argument. I’m in the same boat he is, except it’s been 7 years for me, not 16 months. And you know what? I still catch the same shit, every damn holiday. There are a lot of vegetarian threads on these boards. I can recall _one_ off the top of my head that was started by an actual vegetarian. Every other one (it seems) was started by a meat eater, for the purpose of either 1) starting a logical argument about the vegetarians reasons for being that way or 2) a thinly veiled attempt at mocking vegetarians. That’s why I get _so_ tired of people busting out the old “but they’re militant vegetarians out there!” argument. Yeah? So _fucking what_. Yes. We all know that. Every damn vegetarian thread on these boards discusses it. Thing is, there’s just as many obnoxious meat eaters out there who seem to believe it’s their moral duty to mock vegetarians. _That’s_ why most vegetarian dopers are fucking tired of hearing you meat eaters whine about all those evil militant vegerians out there. Do you see any of them here? No? Then kindly shut the fuck up and leave us out of it. Unless you want to take on the burden of answering for all of those obnoxious meat eaters who mock us with no provocation. Your cousin is annoying? Wears those leather skirts while preaching to you? Preaches at all? Go talk to _her_ about it. Quit projecting your issues with her onto all of us here. It’s hardly doing any good. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/59 "2004-08-09T18:12:39Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Then we have **yosemite** ’s input, which was basically a parody of me. You clever girl! You figured that out! 😉 > [@](#): > > Don’t know what the hell that was attempting to accomplish other than accusing me of attacking people I never attacked. Oh, give me a frickin’ break. You were not saying on that other thread, “I **know that you here on this thread aren’t doing this,** but there are some other vegetarians (like my cousin) who do this annoying stuff.” Nope. You didn’t do that. You directly were accusing people on that thread of “judging” you. Several times. It defied logic. And it was _exactly_ as I predicted would happen early in the thread—that some meat eaters think that vegetarians are “judging” them, even when they’re, like, _not_ judging them. And you just went ahead and did exactly what I had described, just a few posts after I described it. For _that_ you got appropriately mocked. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959/60 "2004-08-09T18:47:50Z")
> [@](#): > > **sugaree** said: > catsix, you have all those dietary restrictions and can’t have a lot of carbs? I thought you loved beer and Primanti’s, missed the U-cut at Subway, and ate soft carbs as a newborn? Yeah, I have a lot of likes that are bad for me. I smoke, too. And I pay for it when I eat or drink stuff that’s carb laden, a lot like my sister who is now sans-gallbladder pays for it when she eats pork. Carbs like that are treats, not daily things. I’m generally fucked up after sushi because of all the rice, but I still love it and suffer. > [@](#): > > **yosemite** said: > You directly were accusing people on that thread of “judging” you. Only **Marley** , and only after he took my post saying that the only type of intolerable vegetarians are the proselytizing kind personally. See, that’s where you get me wrong. I don’t think _all vegetarians_ are judging me. I just can’t freaking stand the ones who whine about innocent animals killed by omnivore people. Guess it’s easier to write your parodies if you don’t have to be accurate? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catsix-youre-a-moron-with-a-persecution-complex-and-im-sick-of-it/258959.md?page=4)