# Cattle herding in Caspian forests **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 6, 2026, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868 "2026-05-06T21:46:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2026, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/1 "2026-05-06T21:46:11Z")
Reading the Wiki on the White Revolution in Iran and I came across this “While the Caspian forests were nationalized, the forest inhabitants—primarily cattle herders—were expelled by the government and relocated to nearby villages” How does cattle herding work in forests? Isn’t hard for herds to move around, and is there really sufficient grazing for them? I’m not saying it’s not a thing, just that I’ve never heard of it and curious how it works. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2026, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/2 "2026-05-07T01:27:00Z")
I live in Montana, and I have seen a few cattle herds living in forested areas. They either like feeling protected by the trees, like being out of the sun, or both, or for some other reason. The farmers lay out hay in a neighboring field, and the cattle go there to eat it, drink some water, and head back to the trees. I wouldn’t say it’s common, but given the opportunity to hang out in a forested area, at least some cattle will do it. I’ve seen it. ---
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2026, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/3 "2026-05-07T01:30:32Z")
thanks. I live in NJ where I see no cattle, so this surprised me. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2026, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/4 "2026-05-07T03:03:30Z")
There is a difference of orders of magnitude between the most and least intense cattle raising practices. I suspect that cattle herding in Caspian forests was very low intensity (low numbers of cattle per unit area) and that they grazed in clearings. ---
**Author:** ![ThisOneGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2026, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/5 "2026-05-07T17:34:37Z")
In the arid western US, many cattle spend the summer up in the mountains on national forest land. The low elevation valleys are mostly too dry to support grazing year round. The cows get moved down off the mountain in the fall because there is too much snow in the mountains to winter there. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2026, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/6 "2026-05-07T18:44:15Z")
The Aurochs, the prehistoric wild ancestor of the cow, lived both in forest and open grasslands, so not that surprising in a way. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2026, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/7 "2026-05-07T19:32:49Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The Aurochs, the prehistoric wild ancestor of the cow, lived both in forest and open grasslands, so not that surprising in a way.   American bison have two subtypes: plains and woods. We tend to think of the plains bisons because of the iconic imagery of vast herds, but bison lived all the way to the Atlantic coasts. Herding swine in forests is common and probably more familiar to those of us in cultures that eat pork. Since many people in Iran do not eat pork, it makes more economic sense in forests to raise cattle instead. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2026, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/8 "2026-05-07T21:28:55Z")
It should be noted that the English word “forest” does not always imply a place with lots of trees. There’s an older meaning “land owned by the king and reserved for his use”, and there are also areas whose name includes the word “forest” for historical reasons but are no longer heavily wooded, like “Sherwood Forest” and “Ettrick Forest”. That being said, it does appear that “Caspian forests” or “Hyrcanian forests” are indeed a fairly wooded area, although undoubtedly some parts are more heavily wooded than others. I would expect that cattle were kept in the less densely wooded areas. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2026, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/9 "2026-05-08T09:55:25Z")
What others have said about “forest” not equal to “total tree cover” is the main thing. Here’s an article on Iranian Caspian forest cattle herding - with pictures: > **[Traditional cattle grazing can maintain functional diversity of oriental...](https://vegsciblog.org/2021/08/07/traditional-cattle-grazing-diversity-oriental-beech-forests/)** > > The post provided by Zahed Shakeri, Daniel Simberloff, Markus Bernhardt-Römermann and Rolf Lutz Eckstein This post refers to the article ---
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2026, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/10 "2026-05-08T14:27:38Z")
thanks…once again the Dope comes through with way more information than I expected. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2026, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/11 "2026-05-08T15:45:10Z")
Agree. Many hikes in the high Sierra will encounter barbed-wire fencing in various states of disrepair. Evidently, the high alpine meadows and surrounding forests (which are sparse) were used for grazing cattle in recent times, and sheep before that. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2026, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/12 "2026-05-08T20:41:25Z")
Low-density woodland grazing is used in some conservation schemes in the UK; basically cattle churn up the ground a bit and preferentially eat some of the more dominant plant species, allowing more niche species to grow, and they may allow tree seedlings to establish. I say ‘may’ as cattle will browse on tree leaves as well as grass and undergrowth, so it can be a bit complicated to predict impact, as it partially depends on the tree species, but also deer tend to avoid areas with cattle, so it can reduce overgrazing damage in some areas even if the cattle do cause some damage. Normally really hardy heritage cattle are used which need minimal attention. Not much beef production, but that’s not always the main goal. ---
**Author:** ![Orville\_mogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/aeb1de/32.png) [@Orville\_mogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orville_mogul)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2026, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/13 "2026-05-08T21:49:23Z")
Still happens across Switzerland ---
**Author:** ![ricepad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@ricepad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricepad)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2026, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/14 "2026-05-08T22:32:06Z")
I remember hiking somewhere in the Sierras about 25 years ago. I don’t recall exactly where it was, but I heard something crashing through a fairly thick stand of trees. I remember thinking it must have been the biggest and clumsiest deer in the world, when I caught sight of it: A cow! Not far behind were several other cattle, a few of them wearing bells. Turns out they were free-ranging in the forest. I have no idea how the rancher kept track of them or rounded them up. I’m pretty sure it was public land, either state or federal. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2026, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/15 "2026-05-08T23:38:24Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Agree. Many hikes in the high Sierra will encounter barbed-wire fencing in various states of disrepair. Evidently, the high alpine meadows and surrounding forests (which are sparse) were used for grazing cattle in recent times, and sheep before that. Decrepit barbed wire is also found on hikes in the Catskills, which used to have far more cattle before the days of factory farming. And @MrDibble that linked article is fascinating. The word “transhumance” brought me right back to GCE “O” level geography, one of my favourite subjects. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2026, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/16 "2026-05-09T13:25:33Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Herding swine in forests is common and probably more familiar to those of us in cultures that eat pork. I remember having to memorize a list of feudal privileges for a university history class, including “pannage”. I probably don’t need to keep that in my permanent memory nowadays. > **[Pannage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannage)** > > Pannage is the practice of releasing livestock-pigs in a forest, so that they can feed on fallen acorns, beechmast, chestnuts or other nuts. Historically, it was a right or privilege granted to local people on common land or in royal forests across much of Europe. The practice was historically referred to as Eichelmast or Eckerich in German-speaking Europe, and Montado in Portugal. The fee to feed one's livestock in such a way was historically referred to as žirovina in Croatia and Slovenia. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cattle-herding-in-caspian-forests/1029868/17 "2026-06-20T02:34:28Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > I probably don’t need to keep that in my permanent memory nowadays. Yet you have now offloaded it into our memories. If it has displaced the memory slots for the birthdays of my nieces and I forget, it’s all on you !!!