# Cavalry, calvary and colloquial uasage. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 31, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698 "2011-08-31T00:12:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698/21 "2011-09-01T11:51:50Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Yes, I do realize this. In fact, that’s why I chose such extremely common examples, and that’s the very point I’m trying to make: These changes are natural, normal, and should be expected. > > And that people who say “Wendsday” shouldn’t complain about those who say “nucular”. Yeah, they should. The reason Wednesday is pronounced differently to its spelling is because the spelling was standardised centuries, if not milennia, after the pronunciation. There was never a time when the word was pronounced as spelled, there was never s time when “Weden’s day” was an incorrect pronunciation. If anything “Wednesday” was an incorrect spelling of the way the word has always been pronounced. Compare that with “nuclear”: a very different situation. The word has only existed in this context for a century. There has always been a very clear, correct pronunciation and the spelling reflects that pronunciation. “Nucular” is a lazy and incorrect pronunciation in every English dialect. It isn’t a dialectical variant. It isn’t an original pronunciation. It’s just plain wrong. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698/22 "2011-09-01T13:06:02Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Yeah, they should. The reason Wednesday is pronounced differently to its spelling is because the spelling was standardised centuries, if not milennia, after the pronunciation. There was never a time when the word was pronounced as spelled, there was never s time when “Weden’s day” was an incorrect pronunciation. If anything “Wednesday” was an incorrect spelling of the way the word has always been pronounced. If you would kindly read the above again, you will note there is a difference between the common and perfectly fine “Wednesday” and “Woden’s Day” in pronunciation. > [@](#): > > Compare that with “nuclear”: a very different situation. The word has only existed in this context for a century. There has always been a very clear, correct pronunciation and the spelling reflects that pronunciation. “Nucular” is a lazy and incorrect pronunciation in every English dialect. It isn’t a dialectical variant. It isn’t an original pronunciation. It’s just plain wrong. Judgemental, much? There are a lot of people who, along with a heck of a lot of people around them, pronounce it that very way. They know exactly what they’re takling about and so do we. It’s correct enough for English. This isn’t French. There’s no National Grammar Service to enforce proper language. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698/23 "2011-09-01T13:15:32Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > There are a lot of people who, along with a heck of a lot of people around them, pronounce [nuclear] that very way. They know exactly what they’re takling about and so do we. It’s correct enough for English. Also marked in M-W with an obelus (as with the other cite mentioned above). ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698/24 "2011-09-01T13:48:30Z")
> [@awldune](#): > > ˈæstərɪks > ˈkælvəri > ˈkʌmftərbəl > ˈfɔɪlɪdʒ > ɪntərˈdjuːs > ˈɪntrɪɡəl > ˈnjuːkjələr > ˈpərti > ˈrɛvələnt If I were curious about what all that gobbeldygook meant, where would I go to find out? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698/25 "2011-09-01T13:50:52Z")
[FWIW](http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2010/02/18/bush-and-carters-nuclear-pronunciation-might-be-right) > [@](#): > > … former President Dwight Eisenhower and Edward Teller, the father of the H-bomb, also said “nukular.” Now comes a new book that defends them. In Physics for Future Presidents, Prof. Richard Muller of the University of California says the pronunciation “has been a tradition at some of our weapons labs since World War II.” He says it derives from the “combination of ‘nuke’ with the ending ‘-ular’ inspired by similar words such as spectacular, popular, and molecular.” Bill Clinton apparently said it both ways. No, there has not “always been a very clear, correct pronunciation.” Both have always been used. And my petty annoyance is when people write “loose” for “lose” … I hate that. ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698/26 "2011-09-01T14:28:24Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > If I were curious about what all that gobbeldygook meant, where would I go to find out? > **[International Phonetic Alphabet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet)** > > The International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) is an alphabetic system of phonetic notation based primarily on the Latin script. It was devised by the International Phonetic Association in the late 19th century as a standard written representation for the sounds of speech. The IPA is used by linguists, lexicographers, foreign language students and teachers, speech–language pathologists, singers, actors, constructed language creators, and translators. > The IPA is designed to represent those qualities... Edit: actually, this is probably more useful to the novice: > **[Sound correspondences between English accents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_chart_for_English_dialects)** > > The International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) can be used to represent sound correspondences among various accents and dialects of the English language. > These charts give a diaphoneme for each sound, followed by its realization in different dialects. The symbols for the diaphonemes are given in bold, followed by their most common phonetic values. > The following abbreviations are used in this article for regional varieties of English: ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698/27 "2011-09-01T17:11:04Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Yeah, they should. The reason Wednesday is pronounced differently to its spelling is because the spelling was standardised centuries, if not milennia, after the pronunciation. There was never a time when the word was pronounced as spelled, there was never s time when “Weden’s day” was an incorrect pronunciation. If anything “Wednesday” was an incorrect spelling of the way the word has always been pronounced. I have no idea what you are saying. If you are saying that it is correct to pronounce the “n” before the “d”, then how does that name of Woden justify that? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698/28 "2011-09-02T02:47:44Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Are you referring to Jimmie Carter? Because I never heard him say “nuclear” OR “nukular”; he always pronounced it “noo- kee-ur.” There seems to be [disagreement as to his pronunciation](http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2010/02/18/bush-and-carters-nuclear-pronunciation-might-be-right) - but a general sense that he had little use for “nu-clear”. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698/29 "2011-09-02T05:26:42Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > There seems to be [disagreement as to his pronunciation](http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2010/02/18/bush-and-carters-nuclear-pronunciation-might-be-right) - but a general sense that he had little use for “nu-clear”. Interesting link. I always heard him say nukear, and only read/heard references to his pronouncing it that way, but am happy to now stand corrected. Ignorance fought. For whatever it’s worth, I voted for Jimmie, liked him then, and still do. “Nukular” makes me cringe, but JC’s “nukear” always cracked me up. . Edit: “There seems to be disagreement” - or in English, you were to too polite to just say I was wrong. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698/30 "2011-09-02T18:46:04Z")
I have changed my attitude toward all that pronunciation stuff. These days, I’m less likely to correct others’ errors, as long as the meaning is clear. I think all those announcers know how to say integral and communication, but they can’t get their mouths to do it. If you say all four syllables of vegetable, it’s easier to remember how to spell it. People look at me funny when I say it that way, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-calvary-and-colloquial-uasage/594698.md?page=1)