# Cavalry in the 19th & 20th Centuries **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 10, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708 "2008-04-10T01:10:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/1 "2008-04-10T01:10:43Z")
I understand that cavalry charges of infantry became obsolete during the 19th century due to the introduction of rifles, especially repeating rifles. When exactly did this happen? Were there ever effective cavalry charges after the introduction of rifles? Specifically, how on earth was the last cavalry charge (by the Phillipine Scouts in 1942) successful? Also, there were a number of cavalry on cavalry battles in the American and Russian Civil Wars. How exactly did they fight? With rifles, revolvers, or sabres? On horseback or dismounted? ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/2 "2008-04-10T02:34:49Z")
As I understand it, in the American Civil war, cavalry usually fought with carbines or revolvers. I have heard that in some units, they would split up into groups of four men. One would hold the horses while the other three dismounted and fought. Which technically made them “dragoons” rather than “cavalry”. I think it was the machine gun, rather than the rifle, that really made cavalry obsolete. After the development of gunpowder, cavalry’s main roles were reconnaissance and skirmishing. Head-on cavalry charges were never that common to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/3 "2008-04-10T03:00:31Z")
I hear a lot of contenders for the “Last Cavalry Charge”- usually it’s Polish Lancers or Russian Cossacks, though, but the consensus is usually around 1939-1942, which tells me that by that stage charges were just impractical because of the nature of mechanised warfare- after all, a rifle bullet will just bounce off a tank, but can fell a horse and rider quite effectively. Cavalry Charges were not unheard of in the Palestinian Theatre of WWI (Aqaba and Beersheeba for example), but for the most part Cavalry in WWI were really acting as Mounted Infantry; riding to battle, getting off, and then engaging the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/4 "2008-04-10T03:45:20Z")
Coincidentally, I’ve been reading _Russia’s War_ by Richard Overy. He writes this about the Battle of the Korsun-Cherkassy Pocket in 1944: > [@](#): > > In mid-February, in fierce blizzards, the surviving troops in the pocket were flushed out by an incendiary attack that burned down the township sheltering them. The German commander, General Stemmermann, ordered his men to break out, marching in two columns across the bare, snowy landscape. Unaware of what lay in wait, they set out to try to reach the relief force. As they moved forward into open terrain without a sign of the enemy, they relaxed. Some shouted out, others fired their automatic weapons. Suddenly, as from nowhere, Konev released his forces in a terrifying finale. The German columns were caught in the open with no heavy weapons. Soviet artillery blasted them and tanks crushed them beneath their tracks while **a Cossack cavalry unit hunted down the German soldiers, slaughtering them with their sabres** as their ancestors had done in generations of service to the Russian crown. “It was a kind of carnage,” recalled one eyewitness, “that nothing could stop till it was over.” Survivors tried to scramble clear, but of the 30,000 men who had set off across the snow, 20,000 were dead, including Stemmermann, who had refused an earlier Soviet offer for him to surrender, and 8,000 were taken prisoner. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/5 "2008-04-10T07:06:13Z")
How could anyone forget the cavalry charges during the [Russian occupation of Afghanistan](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095956/)? 😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/6 "2008-04-10T07:26:58Z")
There was a TV series (IIRC, Young Indiana Chronicles) that depicts a cavalry charge by Allied forces against German guns. The cavalry managed to charge quickly enough that the artillery couldn’t lower quickly enough to fire accurately. Is it based on real events? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/7 "2008-04-10T09:16:16Z")
They appear to still be happening, in [Afghanistan:](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/571498/posts) > [@](#): > > ``In Afghanistan, a country we think of in somewhat medieval terms, our special forces have taken a page from the past, **from the history of the horse cavalry with our soldiers armed with swords and rifles, maneuvering on horseback,‘’** Wolfowitz said in a speech last night. > > The Pentagon has said in general terms that U.S. special forces are working with Northern Alliance units to improve their military tactics, coordinate among their factions and direct strikes by U.S. aircraft against Taliban targets. > > Wolfowitz read excerpts from declassified field reports that describe some of the experiences of those special forces in battle. > > \*\*`I am advising a man on how best to employ light infantry and horse cavalry in the attack against Taliban T-55 (tanks), mortars, artillery, personnel carriers and machine guns -- a tactic which I think became outdated with the invention of the Gatling gun,'' wrote one commando in an October 25 report, Wolfowitz said.** `They have done this every day we have been on the ground.‘’ Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/8 "2008-04-10T10:13:35Z")
Also, is it true that Polish cavalry were sent into battle against German tanks with the promise that they were armoured only with paper or wood? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/9 "2008-04-10T10:29:43Z")
You’ll be glad you asked this 😉 . What has been called “The Last Great Cavalry Charge” happened at the Battle of Beersheeba in October 1917, when the Australian Light Horse (4th and 12th LH Regiments) made a charge at the Turkish positions despite machine guns and artillery. It was successful. [Link](http://www.lighthorse.org.au/histbatt/rathkeyphotos.htm) . The link has pictures as well. As a bit if trivia, my grandfather fought at the battle with the 1st Light Horse Regiment. He did not take part in the charge though. (It can be argued that Light Horse and Cavalry are different but this did have the ear marks of a cavalry charge- to that extent they were cavalry). ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/10 "2008-04-10T11:30:36Z")
[QUOTE=installLSC] How exactly did they fight? With rifles, revolvers, or sabres? On horseback or dismounted? [/QUOTE] At the Battle of Brandy Station, Union and Confederate cavalry fought primarily with sabers. Pennsylvania raised a brigade of lancers at the beginning of the Civil War, but, because lancing requires years of training, they were changed to dragoons. The Texans came to the Civil War with practical combat experience from the Commanche. They though swords were silly; what you wanted to do was ride up close to someone and shoot him with your pistol. In the Crimean War, the Charge of the Heavy Brigade occurred at the Battle of Balaclava a few hours before the Charge of the Light Brigade. Casualties were lighter than you’d expect for hundreds of guys wailing on each other with swords, because their sabers had been rusting in their scabards all winter and everyone was wearing heavy wool overcoats. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/11 "2008-04-10T11:40:39Z")
[QUOTE=Slithy Tove] In the Crimean War, the Charge of the Heavy Brigade occurred at the Battle of Balaclava a few hours before the Charge of the Light Brigade. Casualties were lighter than you’d expect for hundreds of guys wailing on each other with swords, because their sabers had been rusting in their scabards all winter and everyone was wearing heavy wool overcoats. [/QUOTE] It is a shame the Light Brigade did not support the Heavy Brigade at the time. They were a mere 500 yards away. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/12 "2008-04-10T12:36:30Z")
How about the [Battle of Komarow](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Komar%C3%B3w) in the Polish-Soviet war in 1920, often called the “Last great cavalry battle” (where they went at it with swords, amongst other implements of destruction?) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/13 "2008-04-10T12:51:38Z")
[QUOTE=Cicero] What has been called “The Last Great Cavalry Charge” happened at the Battle of Beersheeba in October 1917, when the Australian Light Horse (4th and 12th LH Regiments) made a charge at the Turkish positions despite machine guns and artillery. It was successful. [/QUOTE] Another Australian Light Horse regiment, in the same war, [was not so lucky.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallipoli_%281981%29) ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/14 "2008-04-10T12:56:18Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Another Australian Light Horse regiment, in the same war, [was not so lucky.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallipoli_%281981%29) [/QUOTE] Yes, but at the Charge at the Nek they were fighting as infantry. There were no horses. I still get angry about that one. Watches werene’t synchronised so the naval bombardment stopped 7 minutes before the charge. The results? The Turkish machine gunners got out of the bunkers and were prepared. It was a slaughter- and the men ran to (in a lot of cases) inevitable death. Antill had the opportunity to call off the 3rd and 4th waves- and wouldn’t. He was a dud. The film \*Gallipoli \* (feautring Mel Gibson) was loosely based on this. ---
**Author:** ![puppygod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@puppygod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puppygod)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/15 "2008-04-10T13:24:09Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] Also, is it true that Polish cavalry were sent into battle against German tanks with the promise that they were armoured only with paper or wood? [/QUOTE] Is it a whoosh? In case it is not, no it’s not true. Polish cavalry was mostly professional soldiers (ie. not conscripts, but volunteers) who were actually quite reasonably armed and trained for fight against armoured vehicles. Their weaponry included wz.35 anti-tank rifles and Bofors 37mm anti tank cannons, which were at the time effective against German armoured vehicles (mostly armoured cars and small numbers of Panzer I and Panzer II tanks). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/16 "2008-04-10T14:03:41Z")
[QUOTE=puppygod] Polish cavalry was mostly professional soldiers [/QUOTE] The story of charging tanks with lances and bravery are not true? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/17 "2008-04-10T14:07:13Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] The story of charging tanks with lances and bravery are not true? [/QUOTE] I would doubt it very much. As has been said, the Polish Army was professional, and even half wits would realise that it wouldn’t work. They (the Polish Military Forces) were overwhelmed by numbers- and a campaign that they had not visualised. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/18 "2008-04-10T14:15:47Z")
[QUOTE=puppygod] Is it a whoosh? [/QUOTE] Not a whoosh (in that I read it somewhere, not that I claim it to be true), but thanks for clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![puppygod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@puppygod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puppygod)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/19 "2008-04-10T15:01:07Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] The story of charging tanks with lances and bravery are not true? [/QUOTE] Nope. For one thing, lances at the time were only parade equipment and hence Polish cavalry simply didn’t have lances with them in the field. Actually, one of my professors claimed that this cliche (charging with lances against tanks) stemmed from German propaganda films of 1940, and was later popularized by communist Polish and Soviet propagandist as a symbol of misguided pre-war chivalristic mindset. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708/20 "2008-04-10T15:26:46Z")
There were cases of Polish cavalry attacking German tank units. There were also cases of Polish infantry attacking German tank units, which was almost as desperate. What gets forgotten is that these were mainly defensive attacks; the German tanks cut off Polish units and surrounded them and they were attempting to break out. The Polish soldiers knew they were making an attack that was unlikely to succeed but the only alternative was to be ground up in place. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cavalry-in-the-19th-20th-centuries/444708.md?page=2)