# CBS: Bush knew uranium story was false **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661 "2003-07-11T06:14:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/41 "2003-07-11T22:47:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > Bush believed what he said at the time he said it. Unless you’re capable of retroactive mindreading, you cannot possibly _know_ that. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/42 "2003-07-11T23:25:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > …**The Democratic National Committee is running an [ad](http://www.democrats.org/truth/index.html?s=front) that includes a carefully truncated version of Bush’s quote. Bush cited a British report, which turned out to be incorrect. His statement was the literal truth.**… Here’s something else from that same Web site: > [@](#): > > “Earlier versions of the president’s [State of the Union] speech, this [intelligence] official says, did not cite British sources for the uranium claim. ‘They were more definitive,’ the official says, ‘and we objected.’ At that point, the official says, White House officials suggested, quote, ‘Why don’t we say the British say this?’” [NPR, 6/19/03] But note the president did not actually say, “the British say” or any other phrase that would have implied uncertainty. What the president actually said was, "The British government **has learned that** Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. " That implies that the president believed that the action took place. If the president knew or even had reasonable doubt about whether Saddam Hussein had sought uranium, then this statement is dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/43 "2003-07-11T23:31:08Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by december_ > Bush believed what he said at the time he said it. Given the administrations’ penchant for misleading Americans on big issues like the nature of the threat posed by Saddam, it’s not unreasonable for us to ask for some concrete evidence to back up this claim about the president’s state of mind. Perhaps Mr. Bush could release some transcripts, or audio tapes of the meetings in which he discussed the African yellowcake intelligence with his closest advisors ? That’d go a long way towards clearing the air. If that’s not possible for “reasons of national security”, any transcripts, tapes, e-mails and such should at the very least be vetted by the House and Senate intelligence committees, and a non-classified report issued to report their findings. Without something along these lines, the administration will likely be crippled by the enormous difficulty of pushing their agenda in the face of an utter lack of credibility. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/44 "2003-07-11T23:58:54Z")
I don’t really understand the logic being used here to exonerate Bush. Suppose Ashcroft were to say to Bush, “I believe that Saddam Hussein kidnapped the Lindbergh baby.” Could Bush then go in front of the nation and say, “My sources tell me that Saddam Hussein kidnapped the Lindbergh baby” without any of you Usual Suspects having a problem? I mean, it’s literally a true statement – if Bush were to say it in this way, there is absolutely no falsehood in the statement. But… that’s such bullshit!! If a statement is implicitly false, it’s false no matter who says it. This “literally true” song-and-dance going on nauseates me to no end. And what’s more, I’m being generous in my hypothetical. Bush did not say “British Intelligence has told us…” Instead, he said “British Intelligence has learned…” They in FACT learned no such thing. They might have thought they had that knowledge, but they didn’t. Hence, the statement is WRONG, and treating it as FACT – omitting any qualifiers whatsoever – is a LIE. \ Not that it matters anyways. It appears that brave Sergeant Tenet threw himself on this grenade. Would I be engaging in “Democratic porn” if I hope that he resigns and then blasts the Bush Administration a new one with a revealing set of interviews? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/45 "2003-07-12T00:04:05Z")
If he turns, I’ll be first in line to buy his book, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/46 "2003-07-12T00:20:41Z")
I find it ironically amusing that several posters jump down **december** ’s throat for saying “Bush believed what he said at the time he said it.”, yet go along with Diogenes for saying “Bush knew the story was false”, when both parties gave supporting evidence for their statements. That reeks of partisanship to me. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/47 "2003-07-12T00:27:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cabbit \* > I think that there was a great deal wrong with the way that Hitler promoted his policies. Please stop and think about what you are saying. I must be stupid today. Hitler made some horrendous statements. Maybe he even repeated some intelligence reports that turned out to be wrong, especially when the war was going against Germany. But, his words aren’t nearly as bad as his actual deeds. There’s another thread right now about an antisemitic entry Harry Truman made in his diary. I deplore what he wrote, but mere words don’t make Truman another Hitler. Winston Churchill’s speeches may have been exaggerated in some respects. Nevertheless his speeches made him a hero, because he was encouraging the British to heroic acts. I think history will view the overthrow of Saddam as a heroic act, though not on par with defeating Hitler, of course. > [@](#): > > Regarding Bush selling the war, voters wouldn’t blame him for using deception to convince them that America should wage war on another country? As long as it was “good policy”? How do you define “good policy”? That’s for each of us to decide. I think the world is a better place with Saddam out of power, despite the costs of the war. YMMV. > [@](#): > > **TWDuke** If the president knew or even had reasonable doubt about whether Saddam Hussein had sought uranium, then this statement is dishonest. I agree that unless Bush substantially believed that Saddam had sought uranium, then he shouldn’t have made that statement. Since British intelligence said they had definite evidence, he probably did believe it. The CIA didn’t say that Iraq _hadn’t_ sought African uranium. Furthermore, there was no need for Bush to make a false statement. Congress had already voted to give him carte blanche to attack Iraq. There was plenty of other evidence against Iraq. This was just one single sentence out of a lengthy speech. The speech would have worked just as well without that sentence. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/48 "2003-07-12T00:33:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Hitler’s problem wasn’t how he promoted his policies. His problem was the policies. > > Bush opponents need to make the case that the war with Iraq was bad policy, if they can. If the war with Iraq was good policy, voters won’t blame him for selling it. \*\* So, one can promote a policy using rhetoric, lies and deception as long as 51% of the voters approve of the policy? And, that is the definition of a leader? ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/49 "2003-07-12T00:35:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*I agree that unless Bush substantially believed that Saddam had sought uranium, then he shouldn’t have made that statement. Since British intelligence said they had definite evidence, he probably did believe it. The CIA didn’t say that Iraq _hadn’t_ sought African uranium. > \*\* The CIA did say that the claims of Iraq seeking African uranium were highly dubious. Its just that they let the statement about the British’s intelligence go ahead because it was factually correct. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/50 "2003-07-12T00:56:02Z")
**December** , do you agree this raises the _possibilty_ that some of the other intel could be incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/51 "2003-07-12T01:00:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Hitler’s problem wasn’t how he promoted his policies. His problem was the policies. So I assume that in december’s world view, Hitlerlike methods of promoting policies are ok so long as the policies are “good”. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/52 "2003-07-12T02:07:51Z")
**Apparently they don’t tell Bush what’s in his own speeches** > [@](#): > > U.S. officials told NBC News’ Andrea Mitchell that Tenet himself advised Rice’s top deputy, Steven Hadley, to remove a reference to the uranium report from a speech Bush delivered **Oct. 7** in Cincinnati, establishing that the nation’s top intelligence officials suspected that the allegation was false more than three months before they approved Bush’s repeating it in his nationally televised address on **Jan. 28**. [http://msnbc.com/news/937524.asp](http://msnbc.com/news/937524.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/53 "2003-07-12T02:12:00Z")
Some are not getting **december’s** point that Hitler’s policies were orders of magnitude worse than his methods of promotion. Who cares about Hitler’s methods of promotion, compared with the horror of his ends? This is not to say I think our government should be excused for misleading the public. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/54 "2003-07-12T03:17:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monster104 \* > \*\*I find it ironically amusing that several posters jump down **december** ’s throat for saying “Bush believed what he said at the time he said it.”, yet go along with Diogenes for saying “Bush knew the story was false”, when both parties gave supporting evidence for their statements. > > That reeks of partisanship to me. \*\* Bush was TOLD the story was false. He was simply given permission to parse it in such a way that he could give false information in a semantically defensible way. There is no debate about whether Bush actually BELIEVED that the British intelligence was accurate. He was TOLD that it was not reliable. He pulled a **His4Ever**. He posted a bad cite after being TOLD it was bad. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/55 "2003-07-12T04:18:59Z")
One possible alternative to **Monster104** ’s dichotomy is that the Bush Administration didn’t know what the fuck it was doing. Does that make anyone feel better? ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/56 "2003-07-12T04:29:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\ ***Apparently they don’t tell Bush what’s in his own speeches** [http://msnbc.com/news/937524.asp](http://msnbc.com/news/937524.asp) \*\* So…this was the claim in the speech: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” The title of **Squink’s** linked article is “Tenet takes blame for uranium claim.” Which he did. The linked article in the OP though doesn’t say the claim was false. The unnamed CIA officals aren’t saying the claim was false. The UK didn’t say the claim was false. The article even notes the factual correctness in its wording, takes issue instead with the underlying charges, and they _still_ aren’t saying that whole idea was “false.” False looks like this: Saddam Hussein didn’t seek significant quantities of uranium in Africa. When someone goes on record as saying that, or even saying it is “doubtful” (as opposed to “evidence isn’t solid enough to be presented as fact”), then I’ll believe that someone else “lied” or “knew it was false.” That might happen…but I don’t see it yet. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/57 "2003-07-12T04:50:40Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > I think history will view the overthrow of Saddam as a heroic act\*\* In my time here I’ve read enough of your dribble to know you’re a couple of fries short of a Happy Meal, but WTF?! How’s invading a backass country – thanks, mostly, to your own sanctions – ruled by a tinpot dictator with a dilapidated military – again, thanks to sanctions and a prior demolition – “heroic”? What’s “heroic” about bombing the crap out of scared shitless conscripts with nowhere to hide in the middle of the desert? What’s “heroic” about the mightiest military ever assembled taking on such a ragtag group? Do casualty figures mean anything to you? Because they should give you a good idea that it wasn’t much of a “fight.” Much less a “heroic” one…at least not for the Coalition of The Bought and Paid For. See, they were the ones actually doing the bombing and the killing. A massacre. That’s what it was. No goddamned “inminent danger” nor any of the other Bushit post hoc rationalizations you continually spew – much less “heroic.” Get that through your incredibly thick skull. And when you look at yourself in the mirror, think about that. Because in whatever small way, you, and people like you, made it possible. Fuckin’ asswipe cheerleader . ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/58 "2003-07-12T05:05:17Z")
Well, some people’s notion of “heroic” is a little short of Homeric. ---
**Author:** ![Linear\_Crack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Linear\_Crack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linear_Crack)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/59 "2003-07-12T05:43:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*Hey, Sparky. > > I’m an Ex-Press Corps guy from DC. > > ‘Senior Administration Official’ translates to ‘Cabinet or Deputy Cabinet Level’ or below. That’s senior. \*\* Hey, Chim-chim. Still means jack shit without a name. -LC ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661/60 "2003-07-12T07:01:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\*One possible alternative to **Monster104** ’s dichotomy is that the Bush Administration didn’t know what the fuck it was doing. Does that make anyone feel better? \*\* Exactly. Either Bush is a liar, or he’s an incompetent boob. I suppose the latter possibility is better from a moral standpoint, but it doesn’t make him any more desirable a leader. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-bush-knew-uranium-story-was-false/187661.md?page=4)