# CBS reflects on its complicity in Clinton's loss **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503 "2016-11-11T15:05:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/221 "2016-11-15T20:15:13Z")
**Shayna** , I say this without rancor, you have no idea what my comfort zone is. I’ve changed over the last couple of decades as well. And by “changed” I _do not_ mean “gotten more stubborn in my beliefs.” Where you see oligarchy I see coziness with power in the service of incremental progress. That was a hard pov for me to come to. And it is not a satisfactory arrangement to me, but it’s the only way we move forward in a large republic. So good luck to you too. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/222 "2016-11-15T20:36:40Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > A platform she fought tooth and nail against and would never in a million years enforce. You must think most Americans are too stupid to have seen through that bullshit. Sorry for you we did. Which part was she fighting tooth and nail about? Can you cite that, please? > [@](#): > > You literally couldn’t be more wrong. It was the stuck-in-the-'90s establishment Democrats who abandoned their constituents, not the other way around. Where were you in 2010, when all the republicans came out and voted in their people, and all the far left stayed home? We lost quite a bit of progress that year. Where were you in 2014? We could have made some progress back up, but the far left, once again, didn’t turn out. From a voting standpoint, which when it comes to winning elections is the only thing that matters, you abandoned the democrats entirely. > [@](#): > > This is downright hilarious. You may have voted for Bernie, but you still have no clue why he appealed to so many millions of voters from across the political spectrum: **The center has moved.** The vast majority of Americans want universal health care, want affordable education, want out of bad trade deals and out of wars. And they want the jobs Democrats took away with their shitty trade deals. > > And while Clinton was calling for no changes to Obamacare, more deadly wars and support for the TPP, Donald Trump was offering peace with Russia, fixing the dreadful health care law, bringing manufacturing jobs back, and stopping the TPP. And voters across America didn’t care that they had to take all the other shittiness of the GOP if it meant getting those things done. Clinton was calling for no changes in the ACA? I beg to differ. I don’t know where ou get your news from, but one of her goals was to strengthen and fix the ACA. If you were not made aware of that, then maybe there are issues in the messaging, but it is your responsibility to pay attention as well. The other parts of that paragraph are just as ridiculous. She was calling for more wars? Cite that. Support for the TPP? You need to cite that too. Your buddy trump on the other hand, was offering to hand our allies over to russia, repeal healthcare for millions, institute socialism (that’s the only way to bring back factory jobs, is to have command economy, and require employers to hire employees for jobs that they don’t need), and abrogate all of our trade deals, including those with friendly allies like Canada. > [@](#): > > If the Democrats ever figure out how to let us choose our own candidate without rigging it to keep their hold on individual power within the elite circles – a candidate like Bernie Sanders who speaks to those issues – the country would overwhelmingly vote for their candidate and help move the country back to the Left again. Super delegates didn’t matter. Rigging? Now you sound like trump, but it didn’t happen. More democrats voted for hillary in the primaries than voted for bernie. Which makes sense, as hillay was a democrat, and bernie was not affiliated with the democratic party until he saw how it would benefit him. That’s how the primaries work. To give it to bernie after the voters expressed their choice, that would have been rigged. > [@](#): > > Yeah, I put up the most disliked, corrupt, party insider, one-percent, elite warmonger beholden to Wall Street, Big Pharma, Big Oil and Big Insurance instead of the people. > > Oh wait. I didn’t have any part of that. So, the part I really don’t get, is that you were willing to trust bernie’s judgement for president, but you didn’t trust him enough to listen to him when he endorsed someone else. This tells me that you wouldn’t have been happy with a bernie presidency, because he never would have been able to deliver all that you ask. In no time at all, you would all be complaining that the change isn’t happening fast enough, or that it isn’t the way you wanted it. Basically, you made up a boogieman out of clinton, you believed the right wing’s paranoid fantasies, and then you voted against the party that had been doing it’s best to further your interests. This is not angry backlash, it is just reality. You have insured that your positions will not matter to anyone at all on a national level for at least a generation. I have spent the last 8 years trying to defend the liberal side of things, while constantly being labeled and broad brushed because of my affiliation with you. I have worked to defend your ideas, even if they do me no personal good. I am done with that now. If this is the thanks we get for reaching out to you. If this is the support we get when we sacrifice the moderates to cater to your wants, then you are cut off. You can take your bernie and try to make a new party of your own, see how that works out for ya. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/223 "2016-11-15T20:39:45Z")
No. If we can’t find a way to all go together, we can’t go. Its simple, its ugly, and its the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/224 "2016-11-15T21:22:03Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > By the way, I’m kind of weary of hearing from expert empathetic convincers and negotiators telling Democrats post-election how they shoulda coulda woulda. Margins were very close in the swing states taken by Trump and are accounted for by low turnout among traditional Democratic voting blocs. … Yes. The efforts of Scott Walker and others to suppress Democratic votes were quite successful. But of course acknowledging this doesn’t advance the ‘Hillary is responsible’ narrative, so Bernie-forever types simply _decline_ to acknowledge it. > [@](#): > > Donald Trump pulled off his victory by slim margins in three rust-belt states. Did voter suppression and voter ID play any role in Trump’s electoral college victory? > There were voter suppression controversies in some of the states that determined the presidency, including Wisconsin, Ohio, and North Carolina. > > Wisconsin turnout plummeted to its lowest point in 20 years in the first election where voters were required to present an ID to vote. **Trump won the typically presidential blue state by just over 27,000 votes. Wisconsin’s elections chief told The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel he believed voter ID depressed turnout in high poverty wards, as the City of Milwaukee saw 41,000 fewer votes**. > **[Election Results 2016: Did Voter ID & Voter Suppression Help Elect Trump?](https://heavy.com/news/2016/11/election-results-2016-voter-id-suppression-wisconsin-trump-clinton-hillary-north-carolina-ohio-arizona-polling-places-closed-reduced-decreased-closures-registration-purged/)** > > Did voter ID and voter suppression controversies help Donald Trump in key states like Wisconsin, Ohio and North Carolina? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > … Basically, you made up a boogieman out of clinton, you believed the right wing’s paranoid fantasies, and then you voted against the party that had been doing it’s best to further your interests. > This is not angry backlash, it is just reality. You have insured that your positions will not matter to anyone at all on a national level for at least a generation. … > [@elucidator](#): > > No. If we can’t find a way to all go together, we can’t go. Its simple, its ugly, and its the truth. Well said, both. Attitudes such as those we’ve seen expressed in recent posts in this thread, truly gladden the heart of Putin; he must be beside himself with delight, to see such useful idiots vowing _Never_ to work together to oppose his authoritarian acolyte Trump. _Very bad things are coming._ Those who are wallowing in bile and self-righteousness and demands for the heads of those they consider ideologically impure, are thereby giving material aid to the fascist who is the greatest enemy to progressivism we could ever have imagined seeing in our lifetimes. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/225 "2016-11-15T21:35:02Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > **NOBODY DOES!** > > And that’s what you refuse to get. > > _I_ didn’t let Trump cut in, _you_ did. You and every other head-buried-in-the-sand establishment Democrat who continued to try to convince us half measures by a corporate-owned corrupt candidate was good enough to beat the guy sharing the emotions of the masses that the rigged game has to end. Amen. You have to shake your head at the poster who says, hey, it was only a very few points in some key states - no dude, it was Donald fucking Trump she couldn’t beat. In soccer terms, my granny could have beaten Donald Trump. And she died last year. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/226 "2016-11-15T21:38:41Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > You have to shake your head at the poster who says, hey, it was only a very few points in some key states - no dude, it was **Donald fucking Trump she couldn’t beat.** … How do you explain away the fact that more people voted for Clinton than for Trump? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/227 "2016-11-15T21:43:01Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > **Shayna** , I say this without rancor, you have no idea what my comfort zone is. I’ve changed over the last couple of decades as well. And by “changed” I _do not_ mean “gotten more stubborn in my beliefs.” > > Where you see oligarchy I see coziness with power in the service of incremental progress. Yep. But for whom - have you seen the data on real income for working class and middle income people since the early 80s. Look at t he international comparisons and see how badly the people have been screwed by globalisation and especially neo-liberalism. Just google some images (graphs): > **[A brief history of middle-class economics: Productivity, participation, and...](https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/brief-history-middle-class-economics-productivity-participation-and-inequality-united)** > > The US economy has strengthened considerably in recent years, presenting an opportunity to address the 40-year stagnation in incomes for the middle class. This column provides historical and international context for the key factors affecting... ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/228 "2016-11-15T21:44:10Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > How do you explain away the fact that more people voted for Clinton than for Trump? Mebbe they did, and mebbe they didn’t: that was not the game that was being played. She lost to _Trump_. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/229 "2016-11-15T21:46:09Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > And just know that this is an _extremely_ small sampling of the constant barrage of filth Bernie supporters were subjected to on a daily basis for a _year_. > > And this is in addition to the campaign and its surrogates insulting us at every turn. Deeply. Relegated to Hell. > > If anyone wants to dismiss the damage this caused as “hurt feelings,” then I contend you should expect to lose a lot more elections. I’m a generic lefty who wasn’t strongly for Hillary or Sanders. I would have been happy with and would have voted for either candidate in the general election, and I didn’t participate in the debates surrounding the primary process, so think of me as a third-party observer: The vitriol and hate I saw from Sanders supporters massively overwhelmed anything I saw from the Clinton side. Maybe it’s the forums I was frequenting, but Sanders supporters would shout down, downvote, insult, and pile-on Clinton supporters by a margin of maybe 100-to-1. By the end of the primaries I was thoroughly sick of Sanders damn supporters. I still would have voted for the guy, but Goddamn I hated his fucking supporters. And I certainly didn’t start out with that opinion. If you think the opposite was true, then you were living in some sort of perception bubble. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/230 "2016-11-15T21:46:33Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/231 "2016-11-15T21:48:50Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > **NOBODY DOES!** > > And that’s what you refuse to get. > > _I_ didn’t let Trump cut in, _you_ did. You and every other head-buried-in-the-sand establishment Democrat who continued to try to convince us half measures by a corporate-owned corrupt candidate was good enough to beat the guy sharing the emotions of the masses that the rigged game has to end. > > [More](http://www.mediaite.com/online/establishment-clinton-democrats-are-now-a-threat-to-america/): > > \*But, there was Booker on Sunday, talking the same ol’ same ol, pretending Trump’s victory was some electoral abnormality, standing in denial at what the real problem is: Americans are done with bought-off politicians like Cory Booker [and Hillary Clinton]. … > > … This kind of political stubbornness and unwillingness to move away from corporate servitude only scratches the surface. … > > … We watched as these political and media brainiacs looked the other way while Clinton spent all of August rubbing elbows with celebrities and Wall Street bankers in the Hamptons. Don’t worry, we were told…Trump’s unelectable. > > Many capital P progressives even swallowed their disgust and supported Clinton, even while she delivered speech after speech saying nothing but “Trump’s a monster, vote for me.” > > Wall Street, big oil, and big pharma might still have a stranglehold over corporate Dems; after years of serving at their pleasure, these folks have forgotten what truly representing people looks like. … > > … They’ve been kneeling at the altar of big money while middle America quietly revolted against them. > > If we follow their lead—making symbolic changes around the edges while making no real break from special interests—we’re risking serious damage in the form of eight years of Trump. … \* > > You and yours still think you’re in the majority, even when this election proved beyond doubt that you aren’t. Hillary’s popular vote “win” came from a handful of reliably blue states with major cities in the tens of millions. > > And even though you don’t want to believe it because you think everybody thinks the way you do (or should), the vast majority of Clinton’s votes came from people who can’t stand her, but were more afraid of Trump, so they held their nose and did what they had to do. > > And it still didn’t work! > > You know how I know that most Clinton voters can’t stand her guts? > > _Because I paid attention!_ > > I watched as tens of thousands overflowed stadiums for the two anti- establishment candidates while she struggled to get 300 people to give a shit what she had to say. And you pretended this abysmal turnout for her didn’t matter! It mattered! > > I read the data on her incredibly high unfavorables _and I knew it, too, mattered!_ > > I studied poll after poll after poll that showed Bernie would win the General Election by enormous margins, while Hillary \*lost \*or was barely within the poll’s margin of error. > > I _saw_ this coming and I _begged_ people like you to listen. To see. To accept. > > You gave us Donald Trump because you flat out refused to see that the country has moved so far away from the neoliberalism that got us into this mess and keeps us here, that Republicans, Libertarians and hoardes of Independents were willing to vote for a Democratic Socialist, and if they couldn’t have him, they’d take Trump. > > Independents voted for Trump by a 6 percent margin. More registered Democrats crossed over to vote for Trump than Republicans crossed over for Clinton, even though the complicit, corrupt media repeatedly showcased only those crossing to Her. > > The media lied and continues to do so. And you bought it hook, line and sinker because they were telling you what you wanted to hear. > > Thanks a lot. Certainly a big reason Trump won is because too many progressives bought into RW media about how Hillary is the devil. The fucking Bros forwarded Brightbart and WND links like they were from on high, because if they made Clinton look bad, it made Bernie look better by comparison. When she was attacked on both sides, she couldn’t muster excitement. The Bernie supporters are to blame, because of their stupid lies about the evils of the Clinton Foundation, the lies about stealing the primary, the lies about her Wall Street speeches. There are a lot of reasons that people didn’t vote for Clinton, but the Bros acting as a LW mirror for RW hatchetjobs gotta be near the forefront. Also, if you think Bernie would have won the general, that’s on the level of believing crackers turn into Jesus. It’s faith-based nonsense. Bernie hadn’t been attacked by the RW. Everyone looks spiffy if no one has the ugly lights turned on them. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/232 "2016-11-15T21:54:19Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Mebbe they did, and mebbe they didn’t: that was not the game that was being played. Well, sure: the game that was being played was _'suppress just a few thousand votes in a few swing states, and the resulting razor-thin margins might just do the job in a system designed to magnify the votes from residents of low-population states…which happen to historically belong to the Right_.’ That was the game. The merits of the Democrat as compared with those of the Republican had much less to do with the result than did the artificial system set up, originally, to protect the interests of slave owners. And the fact remains that more people voted for Clinton than voted for Trump. It may be painful for you to acknowledge it, but that’s the fact. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/233 "2016-11-15T21:59:09Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > And the fact remains that more people voted for Clinton than voted for Trump. It may be painful for you to acknowledge it, but that’s the fact. You don’t feel like your clinging onto a democratic irrelevance - elections aren’t a referendum. You talk like they are … She not only lost, she lost with the most sophisticated get out the vote campaign in the history of democracy vs. … nada. Maybe some guy in Kalamazoo with a flat bed. She lost hard; real, real hard. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/234 "2016-11-15T22:04:47Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > You don’t feel like your clinging onto a democratic irrelevance - elections aren’t a referendum. You talk like they are … > She not only lost, she lost with the most sophisticated get out the vote campaign in the history of democracy vs. … nada. Maybe some guy in Kalamazoo with a flat bed. > **She lost hard; real, real hard**. It’s plain that it’s important to you to believe that. But that doesn’t make it true. More people wanted Clinton to be President than wanted Trump to be President, and the votes reflect that. (By the way, I doubt that your contempt for democracy is as persuasive a position as you seem to think it is.) ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/235 "2016-11-15T22:06:03Z")
Lets leave that there. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/236 "2016-11-15T22:08:24Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Well, sure: the game that was being played was _'suppress just a few thousand votes in a few swing states, and the resulting razor-thin margins might just do the job in a system designed to magnify the votes from residents of low-population states…which happen to historically belong to the Right_.’ > > That was the game. The merits of the Democrat as compared with those of the Republican had much less to do with the result than did the artificial system set up, originally, to protect the interests of slave owners. > > And the fact remains that more people voted for Clinton than voted for Trump. It may be painful for you to acknowledge it, but that’s the fact. No, the game was **Get The Most States**. If you don’t understand that, no wonder you lost. She knew it, and that was what she lived and died by. Had she won, you wouldn’t give a hang about the popular vote if Trump had won that as meagre consolation prize. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/237 "2016-11-15T22:11:22Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Certainly a big reason Trump won is because too many progressives bought into RW media about how Hillary is the devil. > > The fucking Bros forwarded Brightbart and WND links like they were from on high, because if they made Clinton look bad, it made Bernie look better by comparison. > > When she was attacked on both sides, she couldn’t muster excitement. The Bernie supporters are to blame, because of their stupid lies about the evils of the Clinton Foundation, the lies about stealing the primary, the lies about her Wall Street speeches. > > There are a lot of reasons that people didn’t vote for Clinton, but the Bros acting as a LW mirror for RW hatchetjobs gotta be near the forefront. I’m afraid there is truth in this comment. The Democrats have become their own enemy. ☹ > [@Lobohan](#): > > Also, if you think Bernie would have won the general, that’s on the level of believing crackers turn into Jesus. It’s faith-based nonsense. Bernie hadn’t been attacked by the RW. Everyone looks spiffy if no one has the ugly lights turned on them. I’m not at all sure of this, however. Hatred of Hillary was a huge factor in this election, while Sanders was widely admired and appealed to some of the same personality types that Trump appealed to. Some Democrats moved too fast on progressive issues like gay rights(\*). The campaign should have been about economics and prosperity. The advantages of the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement should have been carefully explained. Instead the GOP told lies about TPPA while Democrats spent all their time haranguing voters on socially divisive topics. - - I do _not_ say this as someone opposed to gay rights. Just the opposite: I say it as someone who knows that to achieve progressive goals, _progressives need to win elections._ ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/238 "2016-11-15T22:28:05Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > No, the game was **Get The Most States**. That’s what I said. Didn’t you understand the part about the system designed to protect the interests of slave owners? That’s the _Electoral College_. > [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Had she won, you wouldn’t give a hang about the popular vote if Trump had won that as meagre consolation prize. Cool mind-reading attempt, but it failed. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/239 "2016-11-16T00:44:37Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Which part was she fighting tooth and nail about? Can you cite that, please? All of it. [Sanders Helped Push the Party to the Left — But Not Hillary Clinton](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/sanders-pushed-dems-left-but-not-clinton.html) _That’s true; the platform — which still needs to be ratified at the convention — calls for Wall Street reform, repealing the ban on using federal funds for abortions, and having the Justice Department “investigate all questionable or suspicious police-involved shootings.” **But that doesn’t mean that the party’s presidential nominee supports all of the progressive principals articulated in the 15,000-word document.** The meetings on Friday and Saturday dragged on for hours, and NBC News reports that while representatives for Clinton and Sanders were trying to find common ground, **at times things got heated.** Points of disagreement included …_ Go read the list of things her team pushed back on, \*hard \*. If you thought she’d actually support any of the Progressive agenda she didn’t want in the first place, you need a new think. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Where were you in 2010, when all the republicans came out and voted in their people, and all the far left stayed home? We lost quite a bit of progress that year. > > Where were you in 2014? We could have made some progress back up, but the far left, once again, didn’t turn out. > > From a voting standpoint, which when it comes to winning elections is the only thing that matters, you abandoned the democrats entirely. You keep saying that as if there’s any merit in it. There isn’t. First of all, I vote in every election from dog catcher to president, including all those times you think we abandoned you. _We_ didn’t abandon the Party, the Party abandoned us. It’s gone from the populous FDR to the ThirdWay Triangulation with Right-Wing policies of the Clintons. I’m actually the only person I’m aware of on this forum who has the real-world bona fides on this issue, as a 16-year veteran political consultant to the Democrats. But instead of hearing what I’m telling you, you’re fighting me as if I couldn’t possibly know what I’m talking about, _when it’s your agenda that continues to lose elections year after year after year._ Do you _want_ to hold so tight to _your_ ideological purity that keeps costing us seats in both houses and governorships all across the country? Because if 2010, 2014 and now this election doesn’t shake you up enough to realize something has to change, and moving to the right hasn’t helped, then that’s what’s going to keep happening. Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders is now totally running the show. Schumer, Reid and other Party leaders have deferred to him on his pick to head the DNC, and even though he’s no longer a Democrat, they intend to give him a high-ranking leadership position in their caucus. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Clinton was calling for no changes in the ACA? I beg to differ. I don’t know where ou get your news from, but one of her goals was to strengthen and fix the ACA. If you were not made aware of that, then maybe there are issues in the messaging, but it is your responsibility to pay attention as well. > > The other parts of that paragraph are just as ridiculous. She was calling for more wars? Cite that. Support for the TPP? You need to cite that too. She had no intention of “fixing” the ACA, I don’t give a crap what spilled out of her two-faced, lying pie hole. Read the WikiLeaks and see where she had no interest in taking on the health care fight again. It was an albatross around her neck and she was never,ever going to go there. Same with the TPP. She sang it’s praises for years, only to slightly back pedal when she saw the wind was moving in a different direction. Her tepid response was that she didn’t like it in its current state, whatever the hell that means. But she had every intention of passing it. [Her wet dream is a one-world, open borders, free trade, Oligarchic utopia.](http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-open-trade-open-border-immigration-policy-for-migrants-2016-10) _“My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere.”_ You know why you didn’t know this? Google that paragraph. Note that not a single mainstream or left-leaning publication turns up in the results on the first page. _Because these lying, complicit media outlets doubt want to report any truth that would hurt her._ > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Your buddy trump on the other hand, was offering to hand our allies over to russia, repeal healthcare for millions, institute socialism (that’s the only way to bring back factory jobs, is to have command economy, and require employers to hire employees for jobs that they don’t need), and abrogate all of our trade deals, including those with friendly allies like Canada. And yet _he won and your corporate shill didn’t._ > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Super delegates didn’t matter. Rigging? Now you sound like trump, but it didn’t happen. More democrats voted for hillary in the primaries than voted for bernie. Which makes sense, as hillay was a democrat, and bernie was not affiliated with the democratic party until he saw how it would benefit him. Unbelievable. In plain English: The DNC rigged the primaries by colluding with state party chairs, secretaries of state, establishment insiders and the media. They got decades-long Democrats’ registrations flipped to Republican or had them deleted from the voter rolls entirely. They did this by using the data collected by Bernie’s team in the NGP-VAN program and [planting moles inside his campaign](http://www.inquisitr.com/3342500/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-had-hillary-clinton-moles-inside-the-bernie-sanders-campaign/) to steal data. Even the “[Arizona Secretary of State Confirms [through sworn testimony] Election Fraud Happened in State Primary](http://usuncut.com/politics/arizona-election-fraud-primary/).” Fraud occurred in [New York](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/officials-investigating-why-126000-voters-were-purged-from-ny-rolls/) and [California](http://www.gregpalast.com/bernie-won-california-official-un-count/), too. They closed thousands of polling places in counties that leaned heavily for Bernie, colluded with the media to black him out, or only report negative stories about him. They invented mythical “Bernie Bros,” tagged us as violent and got the media to repeat the lie over and over again. They got debate questions ahead of time from the vice chair of the DNC, slashed debates from 18 to six and hid them on weekends, holidays and during major sporting events so people couldn’t get to know her opposition. They got their sycophants in Congress to put their fingers on the scale before a single vote was cast, then got the media to continually report her delegate count including superdelegates to give the impression she was so much farther ahead in the race, even though those delegates don’t vote until July, and even though it’s strictly against the DNC rules to include them. Then they got the Associated Press to call the election the night before the last seven states got to vote, including the largest state in the game, California. This collusion resulted in massive voter suppression, as turnout plummeted precipitously. There’s no way in Hell those vote totals are in any way accurate. Not by a mile. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > That’s how the primaries work. To give it to bernie after the voters expressed their choice, that would have been rigged. Except that’s not how it works, but I’ve lost patience in explaining shit to you now. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, the part I really don’t get, is that you were willing to trust bernie’s judgement for president, but you didn’t trust him enough to listen to him when he endorsed someone else. This tells me that you wouldn’t have been happy with a bernie presidency, because he never would have been able to deliver all that you ask. In no time at all, you would all be complaining that the change isn’t happening fast enough, or that it isn’t the way you wanted it. Don’t presume to know the first thing about me. You know nothing. That’s obvious by how little of the facts I’ve pointed to that dispute all your false allegations, you actually knew about. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Basically, you made up a boogieman out of clinton, you believed the right wing’s paranoid fantasies, and then you voted against the party that had been doing it’s best to further your interests. > > This is not angry backlash, it is just reality. You have insured that your positions will not matter to anyone at all on a national level for at least a generation. I have spent the last 8 years trying to defend the liberal side of things, while constantly being labeled and broad brushed because of my affiliation with you. I have worked to defend your ideas, even if they do me no personal good. > > I am done with that now. If this is the thanks we get for reaching out to you. If this is the support we get when we sacrifice the moderates to cater to your wants, then you are cut off. You can take your bernie and try to make a new party of your own, see how that works out for ya. I did nothing of the sort. I saw the reality that you \*still \*refuse to see. **And I was right and you weren’t.** So spare me the sob story about how hard you’ve worked and your stomping off pouting because **your ideology lost.** The Party is already rebranding itself with Bernie at the helm, so clearly they’ve reconciled themselves to how they royally fucked up by not listening to him from the start. Leave if you want. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/240 "2016-11-16T00:46:50Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > **Shayna** , I say this without rancor, you have no idea what my comfort zone is. I’ve changed over the last couple of decades as well. And by “changed” I _do not_ mean “gotten more stubborn in my beliefs.” > > Where you see oligarchy I see coziness with power in the service of incremental progress. That was a hard pov for me to come to. And it is not a satisfactory arrangement to me, but it’s the only way we move forward in a large republic. > > So good luck to you too. Clearly it’s not the only way to move forward, as the majority of the country not in New York or California denounced it thoroughly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503.md?page=13)