# CBS reflects on its complicity in Clinton's loss **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503 "2016-11-11T15:05:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/61 "2016-11-12T13:19:02Z")
Here is how the Democrats and the news media treated anyone who even thought that Trump had even one good idea. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ExXfWtZRxZ4/hqdefault.jpg "Michael J. Fox flips out on a Congressman in "The American President"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExXfWtZRxZ4) Like the man said we have to work on our people skills The left needs to stop calling anyone who thought, you know that idea of Trump’s might be a good idea, a racist, homophobic asshole. For further information on this read the scientific study: Catching Flys Honey vs Vinegar. On second thought, no don’t stop doing that, it’s so much fun watching you shoot yourselves in the foot. Instead of thinking that just maybe the Dems should adjust their message a bit you guys are doubling down. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/62 "2016-11-12T13:19:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think the vast majority of journalists are Democrats, and/or overwhelmingly favor the Democrat candidate in every election. > > This plan seems to carry with it a certain danger, from my point of view, that “better,” is going to mean in practice, “better publicity for Democrats.” What is it about the journalism profession that seems to attract so many Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/63 "2016-11-12T13:57:12Z")
The same mindset that attracted so many journalists to their profession - inquisitive, reasoning, fact-driven, ignorance-fighting - also attracted them to the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/64 "2016-11-12T14:23:04Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Here is how the Democrats and the news media treated anyone who even thought that Trump had even one good idea. > [https://youtu.be/ExXfWtZRxZ4](https://youtu.be/ExXfWtZRxZ4) > Like the man said we have to work on our people skills > The left needs to stop calling anyone who thought, you know that idea of Trump’s might be a good idea, a racist, homophobic asshole. > For further information on this read the scientific study: Catching Flys Honey vs Vinegar. > On second thought, no don’t stop doing that, it’s so much fun watching you shoot yourselves in the foot. Instead of thinking that just maybe the Dems should adjust their message a bit you guys are doubling down. Well, you continue with the idea that you guys did everything right. As I pointed many times: no, most republicans are not racist, homophobic assholes; however, they do vote for them. And based on what the people did vote for what CBS and you are thinking of is not the right lesson to get, or to be more precise, a very incomplete conclusion: [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/opinion/clintons-substantial-popular-vote-win.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/opinion/clintons-substantial-popular-vote-win.html?_r=0) > [@](#): > > Hillary Clinton didn’t just win the popular vote. She won it by a substantial margin. > > By the time all the ballots are counted, she seems likely to be ahead by more than 2 million votes and more than 1.5 percentage points, according to my Times colleague Nate Cohn. She will have won by a wider percentage margin than not only Al Gore in 2000 but also Richard Nixon in 1968 and John F. Kennedy in 1960. IMHO one has to add to that that the significant number of Democrats that voted for Trump are more likely to get back to the Democrats after seeing what Trump will most likely do. Thinking that he has a mandate (pedantically he does, but I’m talking here about what **most** of the people voted for) does tell me that the Republicans will overreach very quickly and with less pre-tarred candidates by the media the Democrats are very likely to come back. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/65 "2016-11-12T14:43:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What is it about the journalism profession that seems to attract so many Democrats? I’ll suggest that the people who own/control the media outlets prefer to hire like-minded Democrats. If you want a job in journalism, your chances of being hired seem to improve if you lean Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/66 "2016-11-12T20:07:39Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I think it’s a mistake to believe that people are voting against their overall interests. Economic interests are one subset of all interests, and different people can weigh the relative importance to themselves differently. I would trade my personally paying higher taxes for…more permissive firearm laws. I don’t think if I vote for a person that could deliver on that tradeoff that I am voting against my interests. > > Sure some people can make uninformed choices and behave as you say, but I think it’s a mistake to apply this line of thought in a widespread manner. Why would you think it’s a mistake to think that people voting against their own interests is not widespread when it just happened on an astounding scale? This is not a matter of my disagreeing with ideology. My disagreements with Bush and with Romney were to a large degree ideological. Trump is something else, literally. A recent analysis concluded that 73% of the claims that Trump made during the campaign were lies. He has made promises that are either too vague to be meaningful or impossible; he has made many of those promises in response to threats that he has characterized in terms that are outrageously false. His supporters trend heavily to the uneducated. Keep in mind that (recalling offhand some numbers I quoted elsewhere) 25% of Americans cannot name the three branches of government, and more than half don’t know who their own senators are, or the fact that they have two of them. With that in mind, here is a thought experiment: suppose that Trump voters were fairly and accurately apprised of all the facts surrounding the issues on which they voted for him. Would they still vote for him? Another point I would make is that relatively few voters have any particularly strong ideological hot buttons compared to the number who are just looking to government to help make their lives better, so that despite things like guns and abortion that some are fixated on, most voting decisions at their core tend to be fundamentally economic – taxes, jobs, trade, health care, policies towards business and investment, immigration, energy policy – these are all basically economic matters. And the very ones that voters screw up the most, creating in the US one of the largest and fastest-growing gaps between the rich and poor anywhere in the industrialized world. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/67 "2016-11-13T00:37:48Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, you continue with the idea that you guys did everything right. As I pointed many times: no, most republicans are not racist, homophobic assholes; however, they do vote for them. Did the Republicans do everything right? Don’t make me laugh. They fucked up lots. But despite that Trump who took up politics last year as a lark when against your candidate who had - Forty years or so of political experience - Had her party united behind her - Gobs of money from both the party and her war chest - The mainstream media was firmly in her corner On paper ( and according to every pundit) she had the election in the bag. Yet a rank amateur beat her like a rented mule. So I can make the argument that Trump connected with the average voter one hell of a lot better than Hillary did. Want proof? 306 electoral votes. Q.E.D. Now a sane person would sit down and wonder why their message didn’t get across. Nope not the Democrats . You are blaming everyone who voted for Trump. But hey don’t listen to me I’m one of those horrible racist homophobic assholes that voted for Trump. Just keep doing what your doing. After I don’t want to disturb while you are fucking up your chances at the next election. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/68 "2016-11-13T00:44:24Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > But hey don’t listen to me I’m one of those horrible racist homophobic assholes that voted for Trump. QFT If all of us vote, the **Rick** s don’t win elections. Our message would never get across to the **Rick** s because communication requires more than a sender; it requires an interested receiver. The **Rick** s _aren’t interested_. Other proto- **Rick** s might be, and _them_ we can reach, but not through validating the bullshit they’re being fed by their mentors. We feed them healthier substenance they’ll stop listening to the full fledged **Rick** s. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/69 "2016-11-13T00:56:39Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Did the Republicans do everything right? Don’t make me laugh. They fucked up lots. > But despite that Trump who took up politics last year as a lark when against your candidate who had > > - Forty years or so of political experience > - Had her party united behind her > - Gobs of money from both the party and her war chest > - The mainstream media was firmly in her corner > On paper ( and according to every pundit) she had the election in the bag. > Yet a rank amateur beat her like a rented mule. > So I can make the argument that Trump connected with the average voter one hell of a lot better than Hillary did. Want proof? 306 electoral votes. Q.E.D. > Now a sane person would sit down and wonder why their message didn’t get across. > Nope not the Democrats . You are blaming everyone who voted for Trump. > But hey don’t listen to me I’m one of those horrible racist homophobic assholes that voted for Trump. Just keep doing what your doing. After I don’t want to disturb while you are fucking up your chances at the next election. Bingo. Yes, the Dems are terrified that somebody like Trump won and of what he will do / what they think he will do. They should be more terrified that some rank bozo who politically shot himself in the foot nearly every week for most of the election still won. This highly suggest Hillary and how her campain was run was WAY OFF. It also suggests they don’t really understand the electorate nearly as well as they thought. And probably a bunch of other things. If in hindsight doing a postmortem they can’t pinpoint how they did so bad…well, they should stay terrified. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/70 "2016-11-13T01:15:50Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Bingo. > > Yes, the Dems are terrified that somebody like Trump won and of what he will do / what they think he will do. > > They should be more terrified that some rank bozo who politically shot himself in the foot nearly every week for most of the election still won. > > This highly suggest Hillary and how her campain was run was WAY OFF. It also suggests they don’t really understand the electorate nearly as well as they thought. And probably a bunch of other things. > > If in hindsight doing a postmortem they can’t pinpoint how they did so bad…well, they should stay terrified. They should have lied much MUCH more bigly. They should have used FEAR more. But mainly the lying. They tried to use logic and reason. Pffffttt. Useless. They should have run the campaign like a reality TV show. Hillary should have tweeted “The Donald is sleeping with Putin” at 3:00 am, in order to take over the news cycle. Lying, and promising stuff that you can never deliver on, and running an entertainment campaign is where it’s at now. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/71 "2016-11-13T02:44:34Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > QFT > If all of us vote, the **Rick** s don’t win elections. Our message would never get across to the **Rick** s because communication requires more than a sender; it requires an interested receiver. The **Rick** s _aren’t interested_. Other proto- **Rick** s might be, and _them_ we can reach, but not through validating the bullshit they’re being fed by their mentors. We feed them healthier substenance they’ll stop listening to the full fledged **Rick** s. Ladies and Gentlemen here is a textbook example of a Democrat doubling down on a pair of twos when the other guys has three aces showing. This is exactly what I was talking about. **xenophon** doesn’t know: - me - my background - my education level - my life experiences - how much research I put into my voting experience - how I arrived at my decision on who to vote for - why I arrived at my decision - who else I considered voting for. But somehow Sparky knows I’m not an interested receiver. That’s a hell of a crystal ball ya got there to know that much about me. However you just might maybe want to recalibrate it. As far as getting. More voters out, if there is one thing the Dems do way better than the Republicans it is get the vote out. I would not assume that if you got 20% more voter turnout that they would all or even 50% go to the Dems. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/72 "2016-11-13T03:01:15Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > **xenophon** doesn’t know: > > - me > - my background > - my education level > - my life experiences > - how much research I put into my voting experience > - how I arrived at my decision on who to vote for > - why I arrived at my decision > - who else I considered voting for. I know what you post. Did you think that becomes invisible after a while? You have had every opportunity to learn what **xenophon41** and other progressives, and Democratic candidates believe. But you choose to vote for Trump. That tells me either a) you don’t care what we actually believe, because you prefer the caricature, or b) you know fairly well what we believe and you prefer racism, xenophobia and unthinking bellicosity. Which means you’re either in the Willfully Ignorant Caucus or the Let’s Do Stupid Shit Brigade. If enough of us vote, the **Rick** s can’t win elections. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/73 "2016-11-13T03:16:25Z")
Understand we were given a choice between brain cancer and colon cancer this year. I wanted a ham sandwich but he didn’t get the nomination. (thanks to Larry Corria for that sentence) I then thought Cthulhu was the candidate to support after all why choose the lesser of two evils? In the end though I just couldn’t bring myself to vote for Der Leader. That freight train full of her baggage is just a bit more than I and a shit ton of other people could swallow. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/74 "2016-11-13T05:22:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, no denying that. Trump is an attractive candidate for racists. > > But that says nothing about all, or even most, Trump voters. We’re not talking about all, or even most, Trump voters. Millions of them we’re just going to put their X next to the “(R)” no matter what. We’re particularly heartbroken by the tipping votes in the Rust Belt. If a certain 0.2% of DJT’s supporters had stayed home on Election Day, HRC would have won. KKK enthusiasts and other haters often stay home on Election Day — none of the major candidates fit their ideals — but they certainly had a dog in this contest. It is silly to pretend that one of these two statements must be false: Trump won because of the racist vote. Most of Trump’s supporters were not racist. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/75 "2016-11-13T05:23:22Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Understand we were given a choice between brain cancer and colon cancer this year. I wanted a ham sandwich but he didn’t get the nomination. (thanks to Larry Corria for that sentence) > I then thought Cthulhu was the candidate to support after all why choose the lesser of two evils? > In the end though I just couldn’t bring myself to vote for Der Leader. That freight train full of her baggage is just a bit more than I and a shit ton of other people could swallow. That’s not a hard choice. Colon cancer. They take out the colon, and you still live but with a bag you have to empty. My grandpa did that for 60 years. It’s not that bad. Brain cancer means you may die, or you may not be you if you don’t. But, even if they are the same, the fact that one said openly racist and sexist things means that you now know who is worse. If they were not the same, you could argue that Clinton was so much worse that voting for the racist/sexist was the better choice. That’s the problem here. You say that you aren’t racist or sexist (I presume). Fine. But then what was so much better about Trump that it overruled his racism and sexism? Because what the actual minorities heard was “Half the country still doesn’t care about us.” And they are gearing up for another 1960s civil rights movement. Except about half the country is willing to help. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/76 "2016-11-13T05:25:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Trump won because of the racist vote. > Most of Trump’s supporters were not racist. Neither MUST be false. But that doesn’t make the first true – it’s for you to demonstrate it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/77 "2016-11-13T05:55:38Z")
Excuse me? Trump was the one who threw reporters out of his rallies. And now reporters are apologizing to his base? No, I’m sorry, the election of Hitler to the office of Chancellor would not be cause for me to apologize for a hypothetical mocking of rural Bavarians that I did not do. Trump is the same putz he always was. Most of those who voted for him aren’t malicious, just suckered into voting for the Republican like they always do. And of course many, many Democrats stayed home. Trump doesn’t represent the wounded rural farmer, he’s the beneficiary of two things: decades of GOP propaganda leading little old church ladies to vote even for a Nazi if he’s their nominee; and the Democratic Party crackup in the wake of Clintonism leading to Hillary’s final inglorious fall. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/78 "2016-11-13T10:12:33Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yeah so what? Every political party has it’s share of bigots. That doesn’t mean every political party needs to be painted with a broad stereotypical brush. > > I was called all sorts of names by the hypocritical self-proclaimed tolerant left for advocating the point that just because someone use a particular word or wears a flag doesn’t necessarily mean that they are absolutely doing it for racist or bigoted reasons. I was called racist and an idiot and worse by merely pointing out that people may have their own or even no reason for some of their expressions. It put me off of several people on here for quite a bit of time how reflexive the attacks are. Seems like nothing has changed. > > I even remember in some of my first few posts mentioning how people who could be allies will easily be enemies if you attack them unjustly and personally. In some ways Trump is a good lesson. Doubt it will be learned. How can you not understand that when you vote for someone who is an acknowledged bigot, racist and misogynist, you are complicit in promoting those attitudes. How can you not understand that those of us who see you saying “I voted for him but I do not agree with his antisocial, unconstitutional statements” can but nod our heads and fit you neatly into the ‘racist, misogynist and bigotted’ category? If you voted for that jackass, you are supporting his values and that makes you one, too. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/79 "2016-11-13T11:02:03Z")
Trump won the election with two thirds of people believing he was unqualified to be President. He also won with two thirds of people believing he doesn’t have the temperament to be President. Are you fucking serious? How in the fuck do you vote for this person to be leader of the free world? Spare me the bullshit about how much worse Hillary would be, because it just ain’t fucking true. Pardon my French. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/80 "2016-11-13T11:14:51Z")
I am in agreement with the graffiti saying “your vote was a hate crime” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503.md?page=5)