# CBS reflects on its complicity in Clinton's loss **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503 "2016-11-11T15:05:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/141 "2016-11-14T12:53:45Z")
Gerrymandering. Consider a state with 55% whites, 45% minorities. Imagine that the state is redistricted so that every house of representative district is 55% white, 45% minority… How many minorities do you think will be elected? By gerrymandering, both parties achieve what they most desire – their candidates are almost sure to be elected, and some minorities show up in the legislature. Not enough to prevent the whites from doing whatever they want, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/142 "2016-11-14T13:09:18Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > … > _Her_ campaign called us sexists, misogynists, Communists, violent, basement dwellers who weren’t “real” Democrats. Her surrogates relegated us to Hell for not supporting her, and said we were only with Bernie for the boys, and only wanted “free stuff.” We were all white, twenty-something “Bros” who hate strong women. > > Her _supporters_ called us swamp donkeys, thugs, assholes, twats, pussyface, retarded cunts, sag tits, spoiled Jew brats, mutts and douche bags. We were asked if we could use the bathroom on our own, how it feels to be an old troll, were told to fuck off, go to Hell and they didn’t need or want our votes. I have documented evidence of every single thing here, so feel free to challenge me if you want. > > And the only candidate who was scolded like a five-year-old to rein in his “violent” supporters by the complicit, partisan DNC was Bernie Sanders. They even forced him to denounce made-up violence that **never happened**. > > She got exactly what she deserved for looking down her nose at the very voters she’d need to become president. Including disaffected Republicans who flocked to Bernie in droves during the primaries, but whom they were willing to concede because they arrogantly thought they had a blue firewall and didn’t need to appeal to us plebes. > > Baskets full of deplorables and Bernie Bros took her down. But she and her supporters are still unwilling to do a damn bit of self reflection. > > Good luck in 2018 with that attitude. I missed those speeches that bent you out of shape. Doesn’t “swamp monkeys” have a racist tringe? And weren’t Bernie’s crew blindingly white? I do not think well of any Bernie Bros who voted for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/143 "2016-11-14T14:19:43Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > I will never understand how one can say “conservative beliefs” and use that phrase as an excuse for outright immoral bigotry, racism and phobias of every terrible kind. No matter how much you sincerely think that abortion, for example, is a sin, you cannot plausibly use that as an excuse for voting for the hot mess that is Trump. You have to be sharing his horrible antisocial attitudes to vote for that idiot. I voted for Clinton. Suppose we imagine mirror-crucible, who approaches me and berates me for that vote. “You are supposedly pro-life, Bricker! How could you vote for Clinton, a public enthusiast for abortion rights!” I explain that while I was conflicted, I regarded Trump as such a mess, such a danger, that I felt constrained to vote for Clinton even though she was pro-choice and I am pro-life. mirror-c responds… _You have to be sharing her horrible antisocial attitudes towards the unborn to vote for that idiot!_ Do you see the problem with mirror-c’s reasoning? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/144 "2016-11-14T14:21:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Yep, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. If you voted for Trump, you are at an absolute minimum complicitous with his elitism, racism, misogyny, narcissism, and mania. It doesn’t matter how you rationalize it, them’s the facts. > > And that is what is known in the trade as deplorable. Am I complicit in Clinton’s pro-abortion rights views? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/145 "2016-11-14T14:25:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Yep, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. If you voted for Trump, you are at an absolute minimum complicitous with his elitism, racism, misogyny, narcissism, and mania. > [@](#): > > If only one more person would have told me how stupid and racist I am maybe I would have voted for Hillary said no voter ever. _:shrugs:_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/146 "2016-11-14T15:02:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Am I complicit in Clinton’s pro-abortion rights views? Can you fairly contend that Clinton’s views need not have factored into your voting decision? -I know that they _did_ factor into them, and you made your decision on the totality of the differences you surmised between a potential Clinton 45 administration and a Trump administration. What I’m asking is if you think it would be fair to say her views on reproductive rights\* were irrelevant to your decision. And if not, what if she based her appeal to the electorate on a push for more absolute “9th month ripping from the womb” abortion rights as a major campaign promise? What if the full term baby murderer label Trump tried to tie to her in the last debate were an actual plank in her platform, wouldn’t that make her stance even more relevant to your deliberations? \*Not “pro-abortion rights” as you phrased it; that’s not what HRC or the Dem Party has ever asserted. But good example of bias in reporting there, sir! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/147 "2016-11-14T15:56:51Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > …I do not think well of any Bernie Bros who voted for Trump. (post shortened) I’m sure they are devastated and will humbly seek your forgiveness. Eventually. Or not. At least CBS realizes they screwed up. That’s the important thing in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/148 "2016-11-14T16:55:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I voted for Clinton. > > Suppose we imagine mirror-crucible, who approaches me and berates me for that vote. “You are supposedly pro-life, Bricker! How could you vote for Clinton, a public enthusiast for abortion rights!” > > I explain that while I was conflicted, I regarded Trump as such a mess, such a danger, that I felt constrained to vote for Clinton even though she was pro-choice and I am pro-life. > > mirror-c responds… _You have to be sharing her horrible antisocial attitudes towards the unborn to vote for that idiot!_ > > Do you see the problem with mirror-c’s reasoning? false example. Pro-choice means that I, as a man, want no part of telling a woman what she must do in any way involving her reproductive rights. Do you honestly believe that Trump is ‘Pro-Life’? His personal history would not seem to support that contention. Anyway, we have established caselaw already. The damage Trump might do to the world as a whole and to the interpersonal relations of people here in the US far outweighs, for me, any consideration about how he personally feels about abortion rights. My post was made for the purpose of again supporting the idea that no matter what one issue is involved, even the one involving “I’ve been ignored and forgotten by the Corporations and the Wealthy, so I’m going to vote for the candidate supported by and in whose favor he intends to rule, wealthy and incorporated.” No matter what issue, if you vote for Trump, you are supporting racism, bigotry, and dozens of other phobias he has publicly endorsed. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/149 "2016-11-14T17:35:23Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I do not think well of any Bernie Bros who voted for Trump. I would ask, by voting for Trump, do you think you are closer to or further away from the America as envisioned by Bernie Sanders. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/150 "2016-11-14T17:45:30Z")
Whelp, good ol’ O’Bannon is gearing his protégé up for repealing _Roe v. Wade_, so that ought to make you pro-lifers happy. Happy days, **Bricker**! Welcome to the party of control of others. Because we all know only Republicans are capable of knowing what’s right and good. And they’ll force you to live with their views, or else. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/151 "2016-11-14T17:47:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > _:shrugs:_ > > Regards, > Shodan As if they would change their votes anyway. “If you had catered to me, I would have voted for your candidate.” Umm forgive me if I wipe that bullshit off my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/152 "2016-11-14T17:49:19Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > false example. Pro-choice means that I, as a man, want no part of telling a woman what she must do in any way involving her reproductive rights. Do you honestly believe that Trump is ‘Pro-Life’? His personal history would not seem to support that contention. Crucible, that wasn’t an example. It was an analogy. I was drawing a parallel to expose the flaws I believe I see in the statement, “You have to be sharing his horrible antisocial attitudes to vote for that idiot.” I don’t agree with that statement. To highlight _why_ I don’t agree, I showed you an example where I voted for someone even though I did not share her attitudes, simply because I believed my other choices were worse. do you understand now the argument I am making? Do you still contend that you have to have been sharing his horrible antisocial attitudes to have voted for that idiot? Or do you now make room for the possibility that some people may have voted for Trump even if they did not share his attitudes? > [@](#): > > Anyway, we have established caselaw already. The damage Trump might do to the world as a whole and to the interpersonal relations of people here in the US far outweighs, for me, any consideration about how he personally feels about abortion rights. For me, too! And that’s more of a statement for me, since I am pro-life! But I thought the damage Trump could do was so much greater than Clinton that I voted for the pro-choice Clinton. BUT – I am arguing that not everyone has to weigh that choice the same way you and I did. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/153 "2016-11-14T17:50:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I certainly can’t speak for **Shayna** and doubt she’d ever want me to. > > But I don’t believe that her post signaled that she was a Trump advocate. I gathered from her post that she was suggesting that voters who were generally loyal to the Democratic party – and were enthusiastic Bernie Sanders supporters – were subject to such withering attacks from the Clinton supporters that it was hard to get motivated to work on her behalf or turn out to vote for her. > > She wasn’t saying Trump was better – she was (IMO correctly) pointing out that Clinton failed to inspire what should have been a solid core of voters for her. The fact that Trump was a worse insulter didn’t enter the argument. Yes, this. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/154 "2016-11-14T18:02:38Z")
So, let me see if I’ve got this straight. It’s Hillary’s fault that the country has been plunged into this morass. Those who voted for Trump bear no blame at all. And mark my words, it will be a morass that will make Iraq and Afghanistan and Too Big to Fail look like child’s play. With O fucking Bannon as the guiding force for the administration. If he isn’t Goebbels in modern form I don’t know who is. Say goodbye to your freedoms, people. _This is the end, beautiful friend This is the end, my only friend, the end Of our elaborate plans, the end Of everything that stands, the end No safety or surprise, the end_ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/155 "2016-11-14T18:07:24Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Can you fairly contend that Clinton’s views need not have factored into your voting decision? -I know that they _did_ factor into them, and you made your decision on the totality of the differences you surmised between a potential Clinton 45 administration and a Trump administration. What I’m asking is if you think it would be fair to say her views on reproductive rights\* were irrelevant to your decision. No, they were not irrelevant. In fact (and I shared this story elsewhere on the 'Dope) when I arrived at my polling station I sat down with my paper ballot. I stared at it. I marked all the downstream questions. I stared at it some more. I thought about Clinton’s reproductive rights positions and her Supreme Court picks. Then, even though I had come in prepared to vote for her, I changed my mind and marked ‘Trump.’ Then I walked over to the machine that reads the ballot. And I stared at my Trump dot, all filled in, and I thought about his boorish mocking of other candidates, his ugly and divisive commentary about immigrants, his hormone-addled teenage mentality about women, his utter carelessness about civics, his absurd and changing promises, his fake press agent, and his lack of self-control. It’s not an exaggeration for effect: I stood there for better than 120 seconds. One of the officials approached and asked if I needed help. And I said that I did; I had made a mistake and needed a new ballot. I marked the one in my hand “VOID” and received a new one, and sat back down. And then I marked all the downstream choices again and stared at the blank space some more. I contemplated one of the third party choices. I knew that would be as meaningless as leaving it blank. Finally I filled in “Clinton,” and walked my ballot over to the machine, fed it in, and left with my “I Voted,” sticker. I say all that to explain that this was not an easy choice for me. I didn’t like most things about Clinton. I would have happily voted for Rubio, or Kasich, or Bush. I would have unhappily voted for Cruz. But it took a Donald J. Trump to send my vote to Hillary Clinton. But it was NOT a matter of clear easy decision. > [@](#): > > And if not, what if she based her appeal to the electorate on a push for more absolute “9th month ripping from the womb” abortion rights as a major campaign promise? What if the full term baby murderer label Trump tried to tie to her in the last debate were an actual plank in her platform, wouldn’t that make her stance even more relevant to your deliberations? Yes. It would. Fair to say it would have tipped the scales. > [@](#): > > \*Not “pro-abortion rights” as you phrased it; that’s not what HRC or the Dem Party has ever asserted. But good example of bias in reporting there, sir! 😉 I accept this criticism and have adopted the change. But in my defense many years ago – maybe early 2002, IIRC – on the SDMB I used “pro-abortion” as a description and was told “No, no – we’re NOT pro-abortion. We are pro-abortion-RIGHTS as a matter of choice.” I accepted that criticism and tried to adopt that change. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/156 "2016-11-14T18:10:57Z")
Just for the record, as a card-carrying member of the insanely liberal progressive delegation, I find Shayna’s attitude far more dangerous to the viability of progressivism than the Clinton campaign ever was. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/157 "2016-11-14T18:18:28Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Just for the record, as a card-carrying member of the insanely liberal progressive delegation, I find Shayna’s attitude far more dangerous to the viability of progressivism than the Clinton campaign ever was. Really? Maybe you don’t want a card-carrying conservative opining on what’s best for progressive goals, but it sure seems to me like enforcing the sort of with-us-or-against-us-you-b-word attitude that Shayna encountered can’t be a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/158 "2016-11-14T18:25:17Z")
Well, I guess the question for Shayna and company is whether it’s more important to be loved and coddled or to get your progressive goals met. Personally, I don’t have a lot of time for “I’d have agreed with you but someone hurt my feelings so now I’m not”. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/159 "2016-11-14T18:44:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Really? > > Maybe you don’t want a card-carrying conservative opining on what’s best for progressive goals, but it sure seems to me like enforcing the sort of with-us-or-against-us-you-b-word attitude that Shayna encountered can’t be a good thing. Shayna encounters that attitude every time she brushes her teeth in front of the mirror. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/160 "2016-11-14T19:05:56Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Well, I guess the question for Shayna and company is whether it’s more important to be loved and coddled or to get your progressive goals met. Personally, I don’t have a lot of time for “I’d have agreed with you but someone hurt my feelings so now I’m not”. Except a similar question can be directed at you: is it more important to be able to revile and attack those who don’t march step with you, or get your progressive goals met? You seem to be suggesting that you (in the indefinite sense) should have every right to heap abuse on her (again using her as a proxy for all those similarly situated) and she must accept it in the greater service of progressive progress. But why aren’t those who fire off the abuse the ones who have to accept the choice of progressive goals or continued freedom to insult? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503.md?page=9)