# "CBS" Sends me a takedown notice. What to do? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626 "2015-02-14T04:06:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/61 "2015-02-14T16:56:08Z")
Not at all unlikely. Even today a program might be produced by one network but aired on another. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/62 "2015-02-14T17:00:27Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Anyone here ever got a letter from your cable provider that basically consisted of this: > > "(sigh) Dear valuable subscriber, Warner Brothers has recently sent us [insert very verbose and outraged letter] and demand (eyeroll) we cancel your cable because apparently you downloaded [Recent film I shouldn’t have downloaded]\*. Kindly knock it off. If we get many more of these complaints we actually will cancel your service. > > \*Note to self. Don’t download recent films. Stick to old stuff no one cares about. > > edit: Oh, here’s a hilarious self-deprecating anecdote. I’ve downloaded probably two recent films in my life. One of them was “Cabin in the Woods”. I rationalized that because _Robot Chicken_ spoiled the f\*\*k out of it, I wasn’t going to spend money on it after that. (Yes, I can be quite a spoiled brat at times) yeah, but that’s different. that’s the kind of copyright infringement that the industry loves to scream about being “theft” (when it isn’t.) you downloading something you weren’t going to purchase anyway doesn’t deprive e.g. Warner Bros. of the ability to sell it to someone else. what the OP is doing is about as close to “Theft” as this situation can get. he’s profiting directly from selling works owned by CBS. It’s not his to sell, regardless of whether he feels entitled to. IMO CBS is totally in the right here. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/63 "2015-02-14T17:01:03Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > That’s some messed up thinking. > > First off all, if every single one of those ‘hoards of fans’ bought the DVD, they’s sell, what, 40 of them. That’s not going to turn a profit for them. They want to sell thousands. There weren’t thousands of people on the IMDB page asking. > > Second, if you weren’t using your garage for a few years would you be okay if someone just came and ripped it down and build a house there to live in. That’s what you’re doing. You told CBS that you’re going to sell their product since they didn’t feel like selling it. They paid money to make it, but you’re telling them that since they choose to keep in in storage you get to profit from it. Hey, what if I broke into your house, stole those DVDs you made and sold them for 20 bucks a pop. Would that be okay? That’s almost literally what you’re doing. > > Do you really not understand that you’re literally stealing from them? Let’s use a more fitting analogy. Farmer Jones has an apple orchard with a fence around it. Some of the trees have branches that drop their apples over the fence onto a grassy sward by the road. Farmer Jones doesn’t harvest those apples because his mechanical harvester doesn’t get over the fence easily … it’s too much trouble to harvest them by hand and the apples on the roadside are a very tiny fraction … less than one tenth of one percent … of the apples his orchards produce. It’s just not worth the effort to him. Now kids walk along the road and often pick up those apples and eat them. The apples do legally belong to Farmer Jones, it’s his property. Are those kids thieves? What kind of horrible legal penalties should we subject them to? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/64 "2015-02-14T17:12:13Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Let’s use a more fitting analogy. Farmer Jones has an apple orchard with a fence around it. Some of the trees have branches that drop their apples over the fence onto a grassy sward by the road. Farmer Jones doesn’t harvest those apples because his mechanical harvester doesn’t get over the fence easily … it’s too much trouble to harvest them by hand and the apples on the roadside are a very tiny fraction … less than one tenth of one percent … of the apples his orchards produce. It’s just not worth the effort to him. > > Now kids walk along the road and often pick up those apples and eat them. The apples do legally belong to Farmer Jones, it’s his property. Are those kids thieves? What kind of horrible legal penalties should we subject them to? Poor analogy, unless you make Farmer Jones’ apples somehow unique/exclusive and that he alone holds rights to the seeds, and that prohibits anyone from growing their own, or selling the produce if they do. Which is what **Kamakiri** has essentially done. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/65 "2015-02-14T17:12:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Let’s use a more fitting analogy. Farmer Jones has an apple orchard with a fence around it. Some of the trees have branches that drop their apples over the fence onto a grassy sward by the road. Farmer Jones doesn’t harvest those apples because his mechanical harvester doesn’t get over the fence easily … it’s too much trouble to harvest them by hand and the apples on the roadside are a very tiny fraction … less than one tenth of one percent … of the apples his orchards produce. It’s just not worth the effort to him. > > Now kids walk along the road and often pick up those apples and eat them. The apples do legally belong to Farmer Jones, it’s his property. Are those kids thieves? What kind of horrible legal penalties should we subject them to? terrible analogy. a closer one would be if said kids gathered all of those fallen apples, then sold them at market as “Farmer Jones’s Apples.” but that’s still not that good. Let’s consider another example, this time of someone producing firm goods. Say I’m (_automaker._) I source (_supplier_) to make (_part_) for one of my cars. (_Supplier_) does the design work on (_part_,) does the validation testing on (_part_,) and builds the tooling to manufacture (_part._) I, as (_automaker_,) pay (_supplier_) for their engineering, development, and testing costs. I also pay for the costs of the tooling. When my (_car_) goes into production, I pay (_supplier_) the agreed-upon piece price for each (_part_) they ship to me. So who owns the rights to produce (_part_)? _I do._ Not (_supplier_). I’ve paid (_supplier_) for all of the costs to develop and tool (_part_), so I **own** (_part_). I have ultimate say-so on who the supplier can sell (_part_) to. If my volume drops lower than (_supplier_) had planned for, can (_supplier_) sell excess inventory to someone else out the back door? **No.** doing so would be breach of contract, and I’d pull the tooling from (_supplier_) and source someone else to make (_part_). And that’s typically how the TV industry works. The studio (in this case CBS) has paid the production company for their costs of making the TV show. CBS therefore owns the show and has the final say-so on how its distributed. if the appeal of the show is too narrow to make a DVD release worthwhile, they’re under no obligation to do so. No one else is legally able to say “well, you’re not selling it so I’m going to.” Not the production company, not any of the actors in it, not some schlub on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/66 "2015-02-14T17:13:49Z")
> [@Kamakiri](#): > > \*Dear sir, I obtained your email address from XXX. I am writing you now to let you know that my brother, Mobutu Sese Seko, died suddenly without leaving any instructions on how to dispose of $14 M. It is my regret to have to transfer this sum to a foreign bank; perhaps you could cooperate and give me your account number so I cab deposit $7M? > > I am at your service, > > George Mkambo\* ^^That’s the reply you should’ve sent. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/67 "2015-02-14T17:24:37Z")
And if the kids eat too many apples? Is the farmer liable for their ills? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/68 "2015-02-14T17:29:11Z")
**Kamakiri** , I’m still wondering who it is that you think could have sent you the email, if not CBS. Do you really suspect that there could be some scammer in Nigeria whose purpose is to deprive the “hoards of fans” from a digitized version of some old CBS made-for-TV movie? If not, then I’d just let it go–don’t post the movies any more, and chalk it up to experience. Your martyrdom for the long-suffering “hoards of fans” isn’t worth it. No need to write back or apologize, though. I’m sure CBS lawyers have received much worse than your email, and all they want you to do is just stop. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/69 "2015-02-14T17:29:26Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And if the kids eat too many apples? Is the farmer liable for their ills? That’s like saying it’s possible to watch too much Shatner. Can you get Shatner Poisoning? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/70 "2015-02-14T17:30:59Z")
Your apple analogy in this case doesn’t apply because there’s laws existing that say fruit beyond your property line are your neighbors or the public’s to pick as the case may be. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/71 "2015-02-14T17:34:33Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I regret not making my Shatner joke the first time I opened this thread. > > Too late now. it’s never too late for a Shatner joke. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/72 "2015-02-14T17:39:43Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > it’s never too late for a Shatner joke. How many Shatners does it take to pick an apple? One. One Shatner is all that is ever needed. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/73 "2015-02-14T17:41:33Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > If you want real fun, try distributing _Song of the South_ - Disney is famous for its sense of humor. They shut down a 1 person bakery because she would decorate children’s birthday cakes with Mickey drawn in the icing. I used to work as a cake decorator in a Wal-Mart. We’d put just about anything on a cake that was authorized. To put Disney stuff on cakes you had to buy their figurines or stencils. But these lagged behind the opening of a new film. _RING RING!_ “Hello, this is Wally World’s bakery department, how may I help you?” “I’d like to order a birthday cake for my daughter. with Ariel from The Little Mermaid on it.” “I’m sorry, but we haven’t yeat got the Ariel figures instore yet, so we can’t do that.” “I won’t tell anyone!” “But someone at the party might. We can do mermaids, we can even do one with red hair, but we can’t recognizably make it Ariel.” _Loud sigh_ “you’re no help!” “Ma’am, we could get sued, Disney is very protective of it’s characters.” “Fine, I’ll just call someone else who will then!” “Good luck with that!” ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/74 "2015-02-14T17:43:26Z")
I so now want a cake with Shatner on it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/75 "2015-02-14T18:13:55Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I so now want a cake with Shatner on it. But could you eat it? If so, which piece? ---
**Author:** ![erocked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f08c70/32.png) [@erocked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erocked)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/76 "2015-02-14T18:15:56Z")
Intellectual copyright laws are very intricate and the resulting court battles are long and extremely expensive. Any copyright attorney worth having is also extremely expensive. Just his 1 hour council or his rate for simply sending a reply for you is outrageous. Here’s what will happen if you foolishly tried to fight this. Your attorney will charge you about $500 to tell you how copyright law works. With your new education in copyright laws now being violently clear you will be given a choice, continue fighting this and prepare yourself for bankruptcy, or settle. Most copyright cases are settled. Depending on how badly you’ve pissed off the intellectual rights holder will be how badly you are punished. At the point of settling, law doesn’t apply. You are simply making a deal that both sides find agreeable. As in you will be trying to appease them for as little cost to you as possible. If you decide to fight… well just don’t. It would probably ruin you. not just in damages. you would probably lose your job as the case would be tried in the state occupied by cbs (because cbs isn’t stupid and they would press you to settle) therfore you would lose your job and undoubtedly lose your “small business” in which you sell 1 dvd every 3 months. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/77 "2015-02-14T18:33:58Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > But could you eat it? If so, which piece? The piece with his [piece,](https://www.google.com/search?q=william+shatner+toupee&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=eJTfVMmSJYv_yQTN94DICg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1260&bih=1022) of course. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/78 "2015-02-14T18:48:14Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > **Kamakiri** --you have no lawyer (if you did, you wouldn’t be posting here), and what you have done is improbably reckless. > Expect trouble. This. The mistake is in thinking that of all the antenna broadcast TV networks, CBS seems like “the Nice one”. Hint: that’s just spin & image; if you cost them a nickle and if they Can hurt you, they Will. They are A Network; its what Networks Do. It does not matter what logo is on their letterhead. That email was their one shot across the bow, so they don’t look like Total Dicks in the court of public opinion should your story ever get told. (They probably have ways to keep your story from ever getting told, too… or in such a way that you end up looking like Pablo Escobar.) Take the stuff down & get a lawyer ASAP is Honestly the best advice that can be offered. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/79 "2015-02-14T18:58:57Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Anyone wanting to know how that ended (Took me a surprising 15 minutes). Fox eventually dropped the suit. I assume this woman was able to afford attorneys due to public donations.\* And the irony of all this is…no not that she sold a script to Fox, though that did happen. She probably will write a script about this someday. > > \*I would have had to represent myself. In fact that would have been my angle in meetings with Fox’s lawyers. “I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. But I can’t afford to give you all one thin dime. Can’t we just call it a day? You all have made your point. You’ve scared a lot of people. But if you take it much further, the PR backlash is going to LOSE Fox money. So pretty please. With sugar on top. Let’s just walk away.” What always bothers me about these cases is that, though they sometimes end after a mostly reasonable exchange of letters, they also sometimes turn into this: > **[Capitol Records, Inc. v. Thomas-Rasset](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Records,_Inc._v._Thomas-Rasset)** > > Capitol Records, Inc. v. Thomas-Rasset was the first file-sharing copyright infringement lawsuit in the United States brought by major record labels to be tried before a jury. The defendant, Jammie Thomas-Rasset, was found liable to the plaintiff record company for making 24 songs available to the public for free on the Kazaa file sharing service and ordered to pay $220,000. > Before filing suit, Capitol Records offered to settle for $5,000, but Thomas-Rasset declined. The ultimate damage orde... Three separate juries assigned insanely high damages for less misconduct than shown here. If the studio’s legal department is really bored some day, they can take your house. Or maybe they’re at a busy time and just have a secretary send it to you in hard copy. It’s a coin flip. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626/80 "2015-02-14T18:59:17Z")
Pray (seriously, if so inclined) that CBS does not take you down the road the MPAA and RIAA do (movie people and records people, respectively) to those who illegally distribute movies and music. They know how much up front it will cost a defendant just to show up in court so they may very well make you an offer. You could very well [receive a letter from CBS demanding you pay them $5,000 right now and all of this goes away](http://brainz.org/14-most-ridiculous-lawsuits-filed-riaa-and-mpaa/). But if you fail to pay them, or outright ignore them, CBS knows when they take you to court, they will win and your fines (which will be more than $5,000) will cover their legal fees. For CBS it’s not about making money from you. For CBS it’s about protecting copyright so they can make real money from legitimate use, and taking you down to where you will never recover financially. Good luck, suck it up, and blame the dog for the response you sent to them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-sends-me-a-takedown-notice-what-to-do/712626.md?page=5)