# Cecil a UFO debunker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 28, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694 "2004-10-28T17:34:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/21 "2004-10-29T09:59:01Z")
> [@north](#): > > Princhester, > Where did I say that I had decided that UFO’s are definitely alien in origin? You’ve apparently decided that for me because I haven’t said that anywhere on this board. Well you have said… > [@north](#): > > As for the Roswell incident itself, it’s pretty clear that the government has been hiding something for a long time and not just top secret weather balloons. > > … > > The problem is there’s lots of evidence; you just won’t find it on CNN. > > … > > Of course they are covering this up. Oh well, I guess one will have to land in the middle of times square before people start taking this thing seriously. So you haven’t said it in so many words, but your mind is quite clearly made up that there is evidence, there is a cover up. What are you sure there is evidence of? What is there a cover up of? > [@north](#): > > And oh, There’s actually a third option: keep an open mind about it until the really hard, hard evidence shows up. > [@Princhester](#): > > So there are two options. One can say that there is no hard evidence so I’m not going to believe till the hard evidence turns up… Notice anything? ---
**Author:** ![north](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ea924/32.png) [@north](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/north)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/22 "2004-10-29T11:28:38Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > How hard have you looked for the evidence of a race of goatpeople living under Stonehenge? > > Admittedly not very hard Priceguy. Good thing somebody’s looking out for new races of people though or they wouldn’t have recently found Homo floresiensis. Hmmm small bodies…big heads…? 🙂 > > I knew all this before (except a couple of points about the balloon, but never mind). Basically, your evidence that they hid something was one single press release? Without that press release, the case would have been cut-and-dry and totally uninteresting. One badly informed officer makes a poor decision, and suddenly the Air Force is hiding something. > > Sure, but maybe the officer wasn’t badly informed. I guess it’s 50/50 either way. > > No, I’m asking you. You said the reports _weren’t_ from swamp gas or backwood crazies. I asked you how you know that. > > I know it because I’ve seen a UFO. Aliens from space? I don’t know. I Didn’t see any aliens. It was pretty strange though, and it’s behaviour was incredible. That was enough to get me very interested in this subject. As well, if you’ve done even light reading on this subject you know that reports of UFO’s come from all walks of life. Police, pilots, presidents etc. Not all cases are easily explained away either. > > Here’s a good lrecent one from Ohio: [Strange Rumors Of Northern Ohio Activity](http://www.rense.com/general57/ohio.htm) > Check out the live radio reports, they are pretty compelling. > > No need to get snippy. The existence of three official government studies on UFO doesn’t mean that UFOs exist (in any other capacity than as a simple unidentified flying object, I mean). Did the studies conclude that aliens do visit Earth? Were they conducted in a good scientific manner? Where were the studies published? > > Sorry about the snippiness. Well yes UFO’s exist as you pointed out. Stating that they are aliens visiting earth is another matter but it’s certainly possible. Answers to the next three questions: 1) No. 2) No. 3) Yes. Project Blue Book was published and is on public record. Most people involved in the UFO field consider these reports to be disinformation however because of the answer to number 2. There’s lots of available information on Project Blue Book on the internet and many books have been written on the subject. > > Why don’t you just tell me what the signs say, instead? I’m very curious as to what a warning sign might say that would convince you that aliens are visiting Earth. > > That was kind of a joke, and again, where did I say I was convinced that aliens are visiting earth? > > Give me some official reports, scientific studies, or the like. > > Not my job. The data is out there though and it’s up to you to find it. As a skeptic maybe you should dig a little deeper. How you interpret it though is another matter. > > I don’t understand what you mean here. Galileo had evidence. > > Oh yeah? Show me the evidence. > > Did you know that no human has ever walked on the Moon? It was all a hoax. It’s pretty clear that they’re making a big effort to cover it up. Just try [amazon.com](http://amazon.com). > > If you’re somewhat analogy-impaired: the existence of books claiming that there is a cover-up doesn’t mean that there is one. You can find books on any number of idiotic subjects with no connection to reality. Why don’t you just give us some evidence instead? If you are unwilling to do any research for yourself from a variety of sources nothing I will suggest will satisfy you. I could just as easily say “prove it” to just about anything you have to say and you will probably suggest me to “read this.” For example show me the evidence that we’ve been to the moon? Some say there is lots of evidence that point to the fact that we are being visited by “Aliens” and have been for a long, long time. From primitive paintings of “Aliens” (Tassili mountains in the Sahara desert, primitive Australian paintings), to medieval paintings, to modern-day photographs and video. Can I say for certain that the phenomena of UFO’s are Aliens visiting earth? No. But I don’t casually dismiss the possibility either. Especially since I’ve had some experience with the phenomenon itself. It intrigued me to look closer. To be honest it just makes sense to me that we are not alone in this universe. Do I have hard evidence to convince you and the others? No. But there is a huge amount of data (eyewitnesses, radar reports, physical traces, studies, etc) available to anyone who bothers to investigate. How you interpret the data is up to you and depends on your mindset. To some people it’s evidence of extra terrestrial visitations; to others it’s a myriad of clues pointing in that direction. To hard-core skeptics like Dexter, Cecil, some of the other people on this board and maybe yourself…it’s all hoaxers, loonies, and credulous new-age believers with absolutely no evidence to support their claims. Swamp gas and crazies’. Nothing I can say will change that mindset. I ask you though; how do people find hard evidence without first seriously looking for it? Characterizing every person who has ever given serious thought to the UFO phenomenon as a “loony” or “Crazy” does terrible disservice to a lot of credible researchers and serious people who are dedicated to uncovering the phenomenon. Whatever it may be. I stick by my core statement…that someday we will feel foolish for thinking that we were alone and supreme king of this big parking lot we call the universe. North ---
**Author:** ![north](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ea924/32.png) [@north](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/north)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/23 "2004-10-29T11:40:23Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Well you have said… > > So you haven’t said it in so many words, but your mind is quite clearly made up that there is evidence, there is a cover up. What are you sure there is evidence of? What is there a cover up of? > > Notice anything? There is a lot of data that points in that direction is what I am saying. Some would call it evidence by official standards. A lot less “evidence” has been used to sentence people to death in America’s courts. North ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/24 "2004-10-29T11:47:51Z")
_Whoever wins… We lose_ ---
**Author:** ![north](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ea924/32.png) [@north](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/north)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/25 "2004-10-29T11:55:23Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > How hard have you looked for the evidence of a race of goatpeople living under Stonehenge? > > I knew all this before (except a couple of points about the balloon, but never mind). Basically, your evidence that they hid something was one single press release? Without that press release, the case would have been cut-and-dry and totally uninteresting. One badly informed officer makes a poor decision, and suddenly the Air Force is hiding something. > > No, I’m asking you. You said the reports _weren’t_ from swamp gas or backwood crazies. I asked you how you know that. > > No need to get snippy. The existence of three official government studies on UFO doesn’t mean that UFOs exist (in any other capacity than as a simple unidentified flying object, I mean). Did the studies conclude that aliens do visit Earth? Were they conducted in a good scientific manner? Where were the studies published? > > Why don’t you just tell me what the signs say, instead? I’m very curious as to what a warning sign might say that would convince you that aliens are visiting Earth. > > Give me some official reports, scientific studies, or the like. > > I don’t understand what you mean here. Galileo had evidence. > > Did you know that no human has ever walked on the Moon? It was all a hoax. It’s pretty clear that they’re making a big effort to cover it up. Just try [amazon.com](http://amazon.com). > > If you’re somewhat analogy-impaired: the existence of books claiming that there is a cover-up doesn’t mean that there is one. You can find books on any number of idiotic subjects with no connection to reality. Why don’t you just give us some evidence instead? _How hard have you looked for the evidence of a race of goatpeople living under Stonehenge?_ Admittedly not very hard Priceguy. Good thing somebody’s looking out for new races of people though or they wouldn’t have recently found Homo floresiensis. Hmmm small bodies…big heads…? 🙂 \*I knew all this before (except a couple of points about the balloon, but never mind). Basically, your evidence that they hid something was one single press release? Without that press release, the case would have been cut-and-dry and totally uninteresting. One badly informed officer makes a poor decision, and suddenly the Air Force is hiding something. \* Sure, but maybe the officer wasn’t badly informed. I guess it’s 50/50 either way. _No, I’m asking you. You said the reports weren’t from swamp gas or backwood crazies. I asked you how you know that._ I know it because I’ve seen a UFO. Aliens from space? I don’t know. I Didn’t see any aliens. It was pretty strange though, and it’s behaviour was incredible. That was enough to get me very interested in this subject. As well, if you’ve done even light reading on this subject you know that reports of UFO’s come from all walks of life. Police, pilots, presidents etc. Not all cases are easily explained away either. Here’s a good recent one from Ohio: [Strange Rumors Of Northern Ohio Activity](http://www.rense.com/general57/ohio.htm) Check out the live radio reports, they are pretty compelling. _Earth? Were they conducted in a good scientific manner? Where were the studies published? No need to get snippy. The existence of three official government studies on UFO doesn’t mean that UFOs exist (in any other capacity than as a simple unidentified flying object, I mean). Did the studies conclude that aliens do visit_ Sorry about the snippiness. Well yes UFO’s exist as you pointed out. Stating that they are aliens visiting earth is another matter but it’s certainly possible. Answers to the next three questions: 1) No. 2) No. 3) Yes. Project Blue Book was published and is on public record. Most people involved in the UFO field consider these reports to be disinformation however because of the answer to number 2. There’s lots of available information on Project Blue Book on the internet and many books have been written on the subject. \*Why don’t you just tell me what the signs say, instead? I’m very curious as to what a warning sign might say that would convince you that aliens are visiting Earth. \* That was kind of a joke, and again, where did I say I was convinced that aliens are visiting earth? _Give me some official reports, scientific studies, or the like._ Not my job. The data is out there though and it’s up to you to find it. As a skeptic maybe you should dig a little deeper. How you interpret it though is another matter. _I don’t understand what you mean here. Galileo had evidence._ Oh yeah? Show me the evidence. \*Did you know that no human has ever walked on the Moon? It was all a hoax. It’s pretty clear that they’re making a big effort to cover it up. Just try [amazon.com](http://amazon.com). If you’re somewhat analogy-impaired: the existence of books claiming that there is a cover-up doesn’t mean that there is one. You can find books on any number of idiotic subjects with no connection to reality. Why don’t you just give us some evidence instead?\* If you are unwilling to do any research for yourself from a variety of sources nothing I will suggest will satisfy you. I could just as easily say “prove it” to just about anything you have to say and you will probably suggest me to “read this.” For example show me the evidence that we’ve been to the moon? Some say there is lots of evidence that point to the fact that we are being visited by “Aliens” and have been for a long, long time. From primitive paintings of “Aliens” (Tassili mountains in the Sahara desert, primitive Australian paintings), to medieval paintings, to modern-day photographs and video. Can I say for certain that the phenomena of UFO’s are Aliens visiting earth? No. But I don’t casually dismiss the possibility either. Especially since I’ve had some experience with the phenomenon itself. It intrigued me to look closer. To be honest it just makes sense to me that we are not alone in this universe. Do I have hard evidence to convince you and the others? No. But there is a huge amount of data (eyewitnesses, radar reports, physical traces, studies, etc) available to anyone who bothers to investigate. How you interpret the data is up to you and depends on your mindset. To some people it’s evidence of extra terrestrial visitations; to others it’s a myriad of clues pointing in that direction. To hard-core skeptics like Dexter, Cecil, some of the other people on this board and maybe yourself…it’s all hoaxers, loonies, and credulous new-age believers with absolutely no evidence to support their claims. Swamp gas and crazies’. Nothing I can say will change that mindset. I ask you though; how do people find hard evidence without first seriously looking for it? Characterizing every person who has ever given serious thought to the UFO phenomenon as a “loony” or “Crazy” does terrible disservice to a lot of credible researchers and serious people who are dedicated to uncovering the phenomenon. Whatever it may be. I stick by my core statement…that someday we will feel foolish for thinking that we were alone and king of this big parking lot we call the universe. North Ps: Moderator: very sorry for the double post please delete the other post as I am not able to. Sorry for the trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/26 "2004-10-29T12:05:58Z")
> [@cityboy916](#): > > [Here.](http://www.unexplainable.net/articles/1/testimony.html) > > Sure, a few pounds of metal and sticks could have come from a weather balloon, but what kind of material could human beings possibly have had in 1947 that would be that light, that thin, and still stand up to that kind of abuse? Heresay evidence from Jesse Marcel’s son about evidence his father supposedly brought home(but cannot now provide for us to examine), as told to the sensationalist show _Unexplained Mysteries_? Not good enough by half. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/27 "2004-10-29T12:20:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Heresay evidence from Jesse Marcel’s son about evidence his father supposedly brought home(but cannot now provide for us to examine), as told to the sensationalist show _Unexplained Mysteries_? > Not good enough by half. Sorry. Also, this “expert” testimony is from someone who, at a very young age, was awakened at _2am_ by his father: “This writing [on a short piece of I-beam] could be described as like hieroglyphics, Egyptian-type hieroglyphics, but not really. The symbols that were on the I-beams were more of a geometric-type configuration in various designs. It had a violet-purple type color and was actually an embossed part of the metal itself.” Amazing memory from a 2am childhood experience, wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/28 "2004-10-29T12:34:30Z")
> [@north](#): > > Admittedly not very hard Priceguy. Good thing somebody’s looking out for new races of people though or they wouldn’t have recently found Homo floresiensis. Hmmm small bodies…big heads…? 🙂 They didn’t have big heads. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/29 "2004-10-29T12:35:29Z")
> [@cityboy916](#): > > What of the interview Major Jesse Marcel gave in 1979 for a documentary, in which he stated that the metal was thinner than tinfoil and yet could not be bent or broken? how could he tell it was thinner than tinfoil? :dubious: Tinfoil’s thickness is not easy to measure. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/30 "2004-10-29T12:38:29Z")
> [@north](#): > > And oh, There’s actually a third option: keep an open mind about it until the really hard, hard evidence shows up. And what exactly would constitute really hard hard evidence of UFO’s not being alien space craft as well as no government conspiracy to supress Alien information? Maybe the reason there is no hard evidence of these beings existing is because they don’t exist. If they’ve been coming here for hundreds of years, then why is there no evidence outside of blurring photos and ‘eyewitnesses’? You’d have us believe that an incredibly unlikely situation occurs (aliens not only find us in the enormous universe, but they can also get to us) AND that these aliens are so stealthy as to not leave any direct physical evidence behind? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/31 "2004-10-29T12:39:53Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > how could he tell it was thinner than tinfoil? :dubious: > Tinfoil’s thickness is not easy to measure. Well that’s obvious, he compared it with the tin foil hat he was wearing… 😉 (alright, I know, cheap shot…) ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/32 "2004-10-29T12:42:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Heresay evidence from Jesse Marcel’s son about evidence his father supposedly brought home(but cannot now provide for us to examine), as told to the sensationalist show _Unexplained Mysteries_? > Not good enough by half. Sorry. That’s another thing about the story, I find it incredibly hard to believe that the Marcel’s didn’t keep any of the space craft material. Not a shred. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/33 "2004-10-29T12:48:26Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Kinda difficult to hide [the capital of a foreign country](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ae.html). Abu Ghraib. I should have said “Abu Ghraib”. Many apologies. ---
**Author:** ![north](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ea924/32.png) [@north](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/north)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/34 "2004-10-29T13:06:46Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > And what exactly would constitute really hard hard evidence of UFO’s not being alien space craft as well as no government conspiracy to supress Alien information? > > Maybe the reason there is no hard evidence of these beings existing is because they don’t exist. > > If they’ve been coming here for hundreds of years, then why is there no evidence outside of blurring photos and ‘eyewitnesses’? You’d have us believe that an incredibly unlikely situation occurs (aliens not only find us in the enormous universe, but they can also get to us) AND that these aliens are so stealthy as to not leave any direct physical evidence behind? Well there is evidence available like I said. How hard it is depends on your outlook or mindset. It could be argued that the collective evidence of the UFO phenomenon can be judged as hard evidence in any American court of law or in the court of public opinion. America has enforced the death penalty and gone to war on less evidence that is available to the general public and that suggests UFO’s are not of this earth. North ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/35 "2004-10-29T13:12:12Z")
> [@north](#): > > If you are unwilling to do any research for yourself from a variety of sources nothing I will suggest will satisfy you. I could just as easily say “prove it” to just about anything you have to say and you will probably suggest me to “read this.” For example show me the evidence that we’ve been to the moon? Here are two sites that show such evidence: [http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html](http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html) [http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/](http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/) > [@](#): > > To be honest it just makes sense to me that we are not alone in this universe. To me too, but that doesn’t make me go around saying there’s evidence that aliens are visiting the Earth. > [@](#): > > Do I have hard evidence to convince you and the others? No. Then what’s your beef with Cecil saying there isn’t any? > [@](#): > > To hard-core skeptics like Dexter, Cecil, some of the other people on this board and maybe yourself…it’s all hoaxers, loonies, and credulous new-age believers with absolutely no evidence to support their claims. Swamp gas and crazies’. Nothing I can say will change that mindset. Seriously, you should drop this attitude; it won’t help you. Pretending that anyone who opposes you has a closed mind and couldn’t be convinced by anything isn’t a good debate technique. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > How hard have you looked for the evidence of a race of goatpeople living under Stonehenge? > > Admittedly not very hard Priceguy. Why not? Are you just dismissing the possibility out of hand? > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I knew all this before (except a couple of points about the balloon, but never mind). Basically, your evidence that they hid something was one single press release? Without that press release, the case would have been cut-and-dry and totally uninteresting. One badly informed officer makes a poor decision, and suddenly the Air Force is hiding something. > > Sure, but maybe the officer wasn’t badly informed. I guess it’s 50/50 either way. So now it’s a 50/50? A moment ago, it was “clear”. By the way, this is your cue to say that you merely claimed they hid _something_, which they did: Project Mogul. > [@](#): > > Aliens from space? I don’t know. I Didn’t see any aliens. It was pretty strange though, and it’s behaviour was incredible. That was enough to get me very interested in this subject. As well, if you’ve done even light reading on this subject you know that reports of UFO’s come from all walks of life. Police, pilots, presidents etc. Not all cases are easily explained away either. It’s not a case of “explaining away”. It’s a case of finding one incident where the _best_, as in most likely, explanation is aliens visiting Earth. > [@](#): > > Here’s a good recent one from Ohio: [Strange Rumors Of Northern Ohio Activity](http://www.rense.com/general57/ohio.htm) > Check out the live radio reports, they are pretty compelling. I will. > [@](#): > > Project Blue Book was published and is on public record. Most people involved in the UFO field consider these reports to be disinformation however because of the answer to number 2. There’s lots of available information on Project Blue Book on the internet and many books have been written on the subject. So the conclusion opposes yours, and therefore it’s disinformation? Any evidence that it’s not legit? > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Give me some official reports, scientific studies, or the like. > > Not my job. Luckily, it’s not mine either. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I don’t understand what you mean here. Galileo had evidence. > > Oh yeah? Show me the evidence. Before I run around finding cites that the Earth revolves around the sun, something you should have learned a long time ago, first tell me which of the following two propositions it is you’re subscribing to: 1. The Earth doesn’t revolve around the sun. 2. Galileo didn’t have any evidence, he just guessed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/36 "2004-10-29T13:14:05Z")
> [@north](#): > > America has enforced the death penalty and gone to war on less evidence that is available to the general public and that suggests UFO’s are not of this earth. So your logic is that because George W. Bush is a moron, we should all be morons, too? ---
**Author:** ![north](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ea924/32.png) [@north](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/north)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/37 "2004-10-29T13:19:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Also, this “expert” testimony is from someone who, at a very young age, was awakened at _2am_ by his father: “This writing [on a short piece of I-beam] could be described > as like hieroglyphics, Egyptian-type hieroglyphics, but not really. The symbols that were on the I-beams were more of a geometric-type configuration in various designs. It had a violet-purple type color and was actually an embossed part of the metal itself.” > Amazing memory from a 2am childhood experience, wouldn’t you say? Jesse Marcel Jr. was 11 years old at the time. I remember the exact colour and shape of a model plane I got for Christmas one year when I was younger than 11 (we had to return it a few days later when it broke). I’m sure you could accurately describe some toys you got for Christmas when you were younger yourself. It seems to me that if your father brought home material that people were saying was from a “Flying Saucer” it would be a fairly imprinting event on an 11 year old. Human memory is pretty complex. It’s a good point though. I’d be pretty skeptical myself if he had been 5 or 6 years old. North ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/38 "2004-10-29T13:28:15Z")
> [@north](#): > > Well there is evidence available like I said. How hard it is depends on your outlook or mindset. It could be argued that the collective evidence of the UFO phenomenon can be judged as hard evidence in any American court of law or in the court of public opinion. It _could_ be argued, sure, but it wouldn’t be very convincing. > [@north](#): > > America has enforced the death penalty and gone to war on less evidence that is available to the general public and that suggests UFO’s are not of this earth. And what? This somehow validates shoddy evidence? All this tells me is that America has enforced the death penalty based on shoddy evidence, it doesn’t give me any reason to speculate that the evidence is some how credible, which is what you seem to be implying. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/39 "2004-10-29T13:31:02Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > Cecil has also closed his mind to a number of other theories: > > - that the earth is really flat, and the curvature nonsense is a gigantic hoax; Then how come when I draw a map, me being a cartographer and all, is it always flat? If the world was round then my maps would be too! I’m not really crazy, I just play one on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694/40 "2004-10-29T13:32:08Z")
> [@north](#): > > Jesse Marcel Jr. was 11 years old at the time. I remember the exact colour and shape of a model plane I got for Christmas one year when I was younger than 11 (we had to return it a few days later when it broke). I’m sure you could accurately describe some toys you got for Christmas when you were younger yourself. So what? Not everyone can. Additionally when I’m sure that Marcels wasn’t a fully fledged scientist and probably didn’t know what he was looking at. Kids can have magical thinking around that age and a lot of things can be confabulated. > [@north](#): > > It seems to me that if your father brought home material that people were saying was from a “Flying Saucer” it would be a fairly imprinting event on an 11 year old. Human memory is pretty complex. Yes, even if it actually _wasn’t a flying saucer_ and that’s the point. Heck, if I were the kid and my father brought home some material from a downed weather balloon (or whatever) and **told me** it was a flying saucer, _I’d probably believe him too_. > [@north](#): > > It’s a good point though. I’d be pretty skeptical myself if he had been 5 or 6 years old. I’d be even more skeptical then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-a-ufo-debunker/271694.md?page=3)