# Cecil: The slaughtered lion **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 29, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532 "2015-07-29T22:47:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/1 "2015-07-29T22:47:18Z")
I haven’t seen a thread on this, but I may have missed it. The whole world seems to be up in arms against this Minnesota dentist who killed a collared lion. I’m not going not provide a link because practically every news service is reporting on this. I can’t imagine ANYONE supporting this kill, but why in the world would anyone think this was anything but a shameless slaughter of an innocent animal. I’m not sure what to think of the dentist-hunter, but he must really be some kind of macho asshole. Maybe this should be in the pit. Not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/2 "2015-07-29T23:25:25Z")
If he wanted a lion to kill, he should have gone to Milwaukee. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/3 "2015-07-29T23:53:14Z")
Going out of your way to hunt animals like this has been defended on this board before. But the means by which this was done, and the lack of any reason to think the lion was endangering anyone (instead being lured out of a sanctuary specifically designed so no on would get hurt) leaves this without any of the justification that were relevant there. This isn’t exploiting rich hunters to help with problems with wild animals problems, nor a conservation issue (or food issue) that justifies most normal hunting. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/4 "2015-07-29T23:59:16Z")
The Dentist is an asshole. People who have a need to kill things that are not eating them or helping control their population have a mental deficiency I will never understand. He poached and should (and likely is going to) be punished. That said, the way the Internet in general and Twitter in particular allows the entire world to pile onto an individual to the point where their entire life can be ruined is terrifying to me. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/5 "2015-07-30T01:12:08Z")
I’ve spent some time in that park, and it employs some really incredible people with enormous dedication and expertise. It pissed me off that this guy felt like he could get away with with whatever because hey, they are all a bunch a poor and corrupt Africans, right? Their rules don’t really apply to him, right? In this sense, I’m glad he is being called out. But poaching in general is really bad right now. Like, really really bad. And it’s not random American dentists who are causing the biggest problems. We need to treat the systematic destruction of Africa’s wildlife with the same outrage we afford to ISIS’s destruction of antiquities. There is a serious crisis right now and out outrage would be better directed at solving it. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/6 "2015-07-30T02:41:41Z")
Lengthier thread [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=763682), focusing mainly on debate about the outrageousness of it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/7 "2015-07-30T02:46:03Z")
I won’t defend him but he is no different than any other trophy hunter. Last I saw about this he had followed all regulations and was mislead by unscrupulous guides. No one would have ever heard of him if he had killed an anonymous lion. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/8 "2015-07-30T03:37:05Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > And it’s not random American dentists who are causing the biggest problems. The first I heard about this, the ‘hunter’ was described as a Spaniard. As horrible as the killing was, I couldn’t help thinking ‘At least, for once, it wasn’t an American!’ :smack: > [@TriPolar](#): > > I won’t defend him but he is no different than any other trophy hunter. Last I saw about this he had followed all regulations and was mislead by unscrupulous guides. No one would have ever heard of him if he had killed an anonymous lion. Sure, he was ‘misled by unscrupulous guides’. :rolleyes: Given that he was convicted in connection with poaching out of bounds before, and given that he _must_ have been aware of the irresistible dead animal lure, I’m sure he was well aware that he was going to kill a lion that was protected. But yeah, we’re hearing about it because he killed the _wrong_ protected lion. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/9 "2015-07-30T03:39:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I won’t defend him but he is no different than any other trophy hunter. Last I saw about this he had followed all regulations and was mislead by unscrupulous guides. No one would have ever heard of him if he had killed an anonymous lion. But he didn’t kill an anonymous lion. He went into someone else’s country and callously killed a beloved fixture of their most treasured national park. Symbolism matters, especially for people who hold that symbol dear. It’s not hard to figure out that it’s not legal to kill a lion in Hwange National Park. From there, it’s not a leap of logic that luring a lion out of the park to kill it is also likely to be at least shady, and probably something you want to be on real sure ground with. A prudent person might consider getting a legal opinion that’s not from the person they are paying for the hunt-- trusting random people you pay in poorly regulated countries is an easy way to end up in jail. A more prudent person would spend some of that $50,000 to actually spend some time in the area, get to know the local landscape, figure out who to trust, understand the ecology of the area and the economics and legalities of their plans. Not only will that help them avoid killing national treasures, but it will lend some credibility to the whole “I’m a great hunter stalking animals” thing that you just don’t get by parachuting in to a place, shooting the first thing that looks big, snapping a picture and calling it a day. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/10 "2015-07-30T03:44:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Sure, he was ‘misled by unscrupulous guides’. :rolleyes: Given that he was convicted in connection with poaching out of bounds before, and given that he _must_ have been aware of the irresistible dead animal lure, I’m sure he was well aware that he was going to kill a lion that was protected. But yeah, we’re hearing about it because he killed the _wrong_ protected lion. I was not aware of a prior conviction. That does make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/11 "2015-07-30T03:55:19Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I was not aware of a prior conviction. That does make a difference. [Link](http://www.startribune.com/zimbabwe-2-to-appear-in-court-for-killing-cecil-the-lion/318828251/) > [@](#): > > The incident is not Palmer’s first brush with authorities. > > In 2008, he pleaded guilty in federal court in Wisconsin to misleading a federal agent in connection with the hunting of a black bear. Two years earlier, Palmer had killed a bear near Phillips, in Price County. That location was 40 miles outside of the zone where he held a permit to hunt bear. > > Palmer and others transported the bear carcass to a registration station inside the allowed hunting zone, according to court documents, and at the station, he falsely certified that the bear had been killed in the legal zone. Facing a maximum penalty of five years in prison, Palmer was sentenced to one year’s probation and fined nearly $3,000. > > In the spring of 2003, Palmer was convicted in Otter Tail County in western Minnesota and paid a small fine for fishing without a license, a misdemeanor. > > And in 2009, Palmer agreed to a settlement with the Minnesota Board of Dentistry over allegations that he sexually harassed a receptionist. She alleged that Palmer made comments about her breasts, buttocks and genitalia. > > Without admitting guilt, Palmer settled and paid $127,500 to the woman, who also was his patient. > > The settlement included references to his bear-hunting conviction and “substandard record keeping.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/12 "2015-07-30T04:15:10Z")
The sexual harassment is irrelevant. The criminal activity changes the picture. I have always condemned the killing of animals for sport, pleasure, or whatever you want to call it, but when hunters follow the law I don’t find it to be among the greatest problems on the planet, after all we all have a say in the laws and the price of democracy is to allow some activities we may strongly disagree with. However, carrying this over into illegality makes a big difference to me. To go beyond the boundaries of acceptable practices in the desire to kill, to kill in such a cowardly manner reeks of injustice and not simply distaste. I heartily join those who condemn this man personally for his action. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/13 "2015-07-30T04:25:38Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > A more prudent person would spend some of that $50,000 to actually spend some time in the area, get to know the local landscape, figure out who to trust, understand the ecology of the area and the economics and legalities of their plans. Not only will that help them avoid killing national treasures, but it will lend some credibility to the whole “I’m a great hunter stalking animals” thing that you just don’t get by parachuting in to a place, shooting the first thing that looks big, snapping a picture and calling it a day. Well said - even for those not opposed to the activity per se, there is supposed to be an ethics in hunting based on respect for the land, for the quarry itself, for others in your hunting party and for what is involved in the process of the hunt. This fellow has a record of cutting corners with the rules even in his own home country, hard to argue that he didn’t know better. That he’s a highly trained, and one would expect educated, professional only intensifies the :rolleyes: He could have very well afforded a properly conducted hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/14 "2015-07-30T05:10:08Z")
The only thing he really did stupid was to allow pictures of himself with his “trophies” to be out on the web. I’ve known people with Safari Club international. Their hunting practices are no more “evil” than your normal state deer and turkey hunters. They are just culling the extra animals. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/15 "2015-07-30T05:31:07Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I can’t imagine ANYONE supporting this kill, but why in the world would anyone think this was anything but a shameless slaughter of an innocent animal. [Ted Nugent to the rescue!](http://uproxx.com/webculture/2015/07/ted-nugent-cecil-the-lion-thoughts/) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/16 "2015-07-30T15:09:20Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > The only thing he really did stupid was to allow pictures of himself with his “trophies” to be out on the web. > > I’ve known people with Safari Club international. Their hunting practices are no more “evil” than your normal state deer and turkey hunters. They are just culling the extra animals. [Membership suspended pending investigation.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/safari-club-membership-suspended-hunter-lion-killing-32781326) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/17 "2015-07-30T15:24:36Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Well said - even for those not opposed to the activity per se, there is supposed to be an ethics in hunting based on respect for the land, for the quarry itself, for others in your hunting party and for what is involved in the process of the hunt. > > This fellow has a record of cutting corners with the rules even in his own home country, hard to argue that he didn’t know better. That he’s a highly trained, and one would expect educated, professional only intensifies the :rolleyes: He could have very well afforded a properly conducted hunt. I like to think that being a highly trained and educated dentist doesn’t necessarily carry over into being a big game hunter. All I’ve seen so far is he can afford big guns and bribes and permits and fines, and he’s probably a pretty good shot. What I want to know is, what’s the point of hunting something with a crossbow if you still need to follow it around for a while until it falls over, and then you shoot it with a gun? Why not use the gun in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/18 "2015-07-30T15:30:18Z")
If you’re hunting for food, I’ve got no problem with you, providing you’re abiding by the law. Every deer you shoot is one less than I might hit with my car, plus herd management prevents some animals from starvation. Big game hunting is another story. You’re hunting for a head to mount or a rug to make. Nobody needs that stuff. You’re not some brave guy risking death, in this case it was a lion used to people who was an easy hit. If you’re a big game hunter, you’re an asshole. This dentist is a particular asshole in that he killed a beloved local institution. He protests that he practices his hobby responsibly. Bullshit. There is no way to be a responsible big game hunter. At least his dental practice is ruined. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/19 "2015-07-30T15:35:08Z")
Previous conviction penalty amounted to forfeit the hide and pay $3,000. Now that’s a crime, right there! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532/20 "2015-07-30T15:38:43Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Previous conviction penalty amounted to forfeit the hide and pay $3,000. > > Now that’s a crime, right there! And a year of probation. (He could have gotten five years imprisonment.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecil-the-slaughtered-lion/726532.md?page=2)