# Cecil's column: Why does the UK Call itself Great Britain **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 24, 2006, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecils-column-why-does-the-uk-call-itself-great-britain/345911 "2006-02-24T12:03:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guevara)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecils-column-why-does-the-uk-call-itself-great-britain/345911/1 "2006-02-24T12:03:25Z")
In Cecil’s column on why the UK Calls Itself Great Britain ( [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5\_153.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_153.html) ) I couldn’t help notice that, as i proud Brit myself, Cecil missed the more simple explaination. Far from distinguishing between Brittany, the term Great Britain is traditionally viewed in Britain itself as a matter of size. Let me explain; The British Isles encompases a LOT of Islands, The Shetlands, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey etc etc, including the two main islands. Ireland, and the biggest one in the British Isles - Hence, Great Britian. But then, i’m sure someone from the colonies will prove me wrong… ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecils-column-why-does-the-uk-call-itself-great-britain/345911/2 "2006-02-24T12:34:09Z")
As far as I know, the first use of the phrase Great Britain was by Ptolemy who called the British Isles _Bretania_ (supposed it related to the painted faces and/or other bits of the locals). Since the British mainland was the biggest island he called it _Megale Brettania._ Just a little later, somewhere around 1136, Geoffrey came along and changed things around a bit. According to him in _Historia Regum Britanniae_, Brutus of Troy came to the UK sometime around 1100BC and called the island after himself. There is no basis in fact for this story, though. Geoffrey also called the mainland _Britannia maior_, but not to distinguish from the little bits of Britain, but from _Britannia minor_, which appoximates to modern day Brittany. Looks you and Cecil are both half right. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecils-column-why-does-the-uk-call-itself-great-britain/345911/3 "2006-02-24T12:35:26Z")
Geoffrey = Geoffrey of Monmouth :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecils-column-why-does-the-uk-call-itself-great-britain/345911/4 "2006-02-24T13:31:39Z")
Just a couple of comments on this from Cecil’s column: > [@](#): > > James I, who was also James VI of Scotland, unified the thrones of England and Scotland and had himself proclaimed king of Great Britain in 1604. The term became official with the Act of Union in 1707. James was not “King of Great Britain”: he was King of England and King of Scotland, which remained separate kingdoms until 1707. It was a personal union, meaning that the monarch rules over more than one kingdom. In this case, the kingdoms later became one (in 1707, as the quote says), but that doesn’t always happen. For example, King George III was King of Great Britain (1760–1800) and King of Ireland (1760–1800) and those kingdoms were united so that he was King of the United Kingdom from 1801 to 1820. But at the same time he was Elector of Hanover (1760–1814) and King of Hanover (1814–1820). The personal union of the UK and Hanover ended in 1837 when Victoria inherited the throne in the UK, but Ernest Augustus I (her uncle) became King of Hanover – since the UK and Hanover had different laws about the succession. There’s a different sort of personal union today, where Elizabeth II is Queen of the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and a few other dominions. These dominons were once united as parts of the British Empire, but they are unlikely to ever be re-united. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecils-column-why-does-the-uk-call-itself-great-britain/345911/5 "2006-02-24T14:09:17Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > As far as I know, the first use of the phrase Great Britain was by Ptolemy who called the British Isles _Bretania_ (supposed it related to the painted faces and/or other bits of the locals). Since the British mainland was the biggest island he called it _Megale Brettania._ > \ Ultimately, \*Britain \* \< \*\*Pritanî \* “People of the Forms” (W. _pryd_, Ir. _cruth_). (From Koch et al., _Celtic Culture: A Historical Encyclopedia_ 2006 s.v. Britones) “Form” is a loose generalization for a broad semantic range. This is probably “form” in the sense of “culture / tradition,” but could just as easily be “handsome / beautiful” (compare Spanish \*hermoso \* \< Latin _formosus_) The “painted faces” explanation is traditional, going back to the Latin word for the Picts, but less likely. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecils-column-why-does-the-uk-call-itself-great-britain/345911/6 "2006-02-24T14:15:59Z")
> [@Guevara](#): > > In Cecil’s column on why the UK Calls Itself Great Britain ( [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5\_153.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_153.html) ) I couldn’t help notice that, as i proud Brit myself, Cecil missed the more simple explaination. > > Far from distinguishing between Brittany, the term Great Britain is traditionally viewed in Britain itself as a matter of size. > > Let me explain; The British Isles encompases a LOT of Islands, The Shetlands, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey etc etc, including the two main islands. > > Ireland, and the biggest one in the British Isles - Hence, Great Britian. > > But then, i’m sure someone from the colonies will prove me wrong… As another proud Brit let me state that Great Britain is NOT traditionally viewed in Britain itself as a matter of size. It is, alas, probably true that a majority of its citizens _nowadays_ view it in that way, but that’s simply ignorance of the true origin and has nothing whatsoever to do with tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecils-column-why-does-the-uk-call-itself-great-britain/345911/7 "2006-02-24T16:43:32Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > James was not “King of Great Britain”: he was King of England and King of Scotland, which remained separate kingdoms until 1707. It was a personal union, meaning that the monarch rules over more than one kingdom. While James VI and I was not the king of a country called “Great Britain”, his unofficial style, as declared in a proclamation of 1604, was: “James, King of Great Brittaine, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.” [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_I_of_England#Style_and_arms) ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecils-column-why-does-the-uk-call-itself-great-britain/345911/8 "2006-02-24T18:36:48Z")
> [@Tevildo](#): > > While James VI and I was not the king of a country called “Great Britain”, his unofficial style, as declared in a proclamation of 1604, was: > > “James, King of Great Brittaine, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.” Very interesting, and I guess it means that Uncle Cecil was more right than I thought. Also interesting that he was styled as “King of France”, since the only part of France that he really governed was the Channel Islands. I see from this Wikipedia article: [English claims to the French throne](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_claims_to_the_French_throne) that the last British monarch to claim the French throne was George III, who abandoned the claim after the French Revolution! Even the Jacobite pretenders abandoned their claim to the thrones of England, France, Scotland and Ireland in 1807. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecils-column-why-does-the-uk-call-itself-great-britain/345911/9 "2006-02-24T18:37:31Z")
The origin of the phrase “Great Britain” as distinguishing it from “Lesser Britain”, or Brittany, is pretty well established. Indeed, the distinction between _Bretagne_ and _Granbretagne_" continues to be absolutely necessary in French to this day. Ptolomy’s distinction between “Megale Brettania” (Great Britain) and “Micra Brettania” (Ireland) may have contributed, but Ptolomy was thousands of miles away, so he could dare to call Ireland “Lesser Britain”. People actually living in northwestern Europe never have.