# Cecilvania: The Forbidden Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 15, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472 "2008-05-15T18:39:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/81 "2008-06-07T20:31:19Z")
OK, so the lesson I learned is that pissing people off is anti-Town. I brought down more suspicion on myself than necessary by being combative and unfriendly in my responses. When Townies get angry at each other, they start to suspect each other. It’s better to be calm and polite at all times, even if someone is annoying you. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/82 "2008-06-07T20:55:22Z")
That was what you call quick. Two subs in, and all I managed to do was get Freudian Slit killed in my place. Still, at least the scum wasted their kill on a non-power role. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/83 "2008-06-08T00:38:58Z")
[QUOTE=WF Tomba] OK, so the lesson I learned is that pissing people off is anti-Town. I brought down more suspicion on myself than necessary by being combative and unfriendly in my responses. When Townies get angry at each other, they start to suspect each other. It’s better to be calm and polite at all times, even if someone is annoying you. [/QUOTE] This is quite True. Jerks get lynched quicker than Nice Guys. However, if you’re TOO Nice, then you look like you’ve something to hide, and you get lynched for acting TOO calm about it- because being emotional is a townie tell according to some. So its a VERY fine line between being nice and emotional. However, Assholes always get lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/84 "2008-06-08T18:38:25Z")
Here I am! Yup, I fooled you all, didn’t I? It’s funny–when I was scum, I managed to “pass” all right…but as a Townie, I pinged everyone’s radar. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/85 "2008-06-10T19:35:01Z")
I don’t want to be sanctimonious, and I think it’s a moot point anyway, but if I were moderator I’d have something to say about this: > [@storyteller0910](#): > > I will say that I have not been bitten, and would like to re-emphasize for anyone considering biting me in the future that I will reveal your identity if you turn me, even if it costs me the game. > > . . . > > I don’t want to be a Vampire. I don’t like the idea of being recruited in any regard, of my win condition changing, of any good play I’ve made so far being essentially penalized. He’s threatening to play to lose in order to thwart the game mechanics. The reason I think it’s moot is that the possibility that has been raised here, a secret power that would allow Dracula to kill a Vampire who rats him out, probably doesn’t exist. But it makes me uncomfortable to think of a player deliberately throwing the game just because he doesn’t like recruitment. Of course, I don’t see why the moderators allowed this strange debate about ratting out Dracula to occur at all. If you’re going to put a recruitment process in a game, you should make it clear that players are to play for their _current_ side. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/86 "2008-06-10T19:49:14Z")
[QUOTE=WF Tomba] I don’t want to be sanctimonious, and I think it’s a moot point anyway, but if I were moderator I’d have something to say about this: He’s threatening to play to lose in order to thwart the game mechanics. The reason I think it’s moot is that the possibility that has been raised here, a secret power that would allow Dracula to kill a Vampire who rats him out, probably doesn’t exist. But it makes me uncomfortable to think of a player deliberately throwing the game just because he doesn’t like recruitment. Of course, I don’t see why the moderators allowed this strange debate about ratting out Dracula to occur at all. If you’re going to put a recruitment process in a game, you should make it clear that players are to play for their _current_ side. [/QUOTE] I am not in favor of restricting conversation. The players who need to know what is expected of them, know. If story wants to threaten mutually assured destruction that is a valid gambit to make. Far be it from me to cut of an avenue of discussion, especially when there is so little to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/87 "2008-06-10T20:09:18Z")
[QUOTE=NAF1138] I am not in favor of restricting conversation. The players who need to know what is expected of them, know. If story wants to threaten mutually assured destruction that is a valid gambit to make. Far be it from me to cut of an avenue of discussion, especially when there is so little to begin with. [/QUOTE] I don’t mind him making the threat, and I’m not saying you should punish him for saying it, but don’t you have an interest in assuring the players that basic game principles will be respected? I think it harms the game to allow players to believe that someone is going to play to lose. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/88 "2008-06-11T01:35:14Z")
[QUOTE=WF Tomba] I don’t mind him making the threat, and I’m not saying you should punish him for saying it, but don’t you have an interest in assuring the players that basic game principles will be respected? I think it harms the game to allow players to believe that someone is going to play to lose. [/QUOTE] It depends on the case. I think in this case, the Vampire role was just poorly written up or is quite unknown. If i was to create a Recruitment Role, I would certainly factor this point- the chance a player may try to blow it. It’s happened before in games where Scum have blown it for their team (usually unintentionally, but still). It’s just a reason that Recruitment is SO tricky to deal with, and its much easier to have “blind” recruitment then (ie: the player is UNAWARE who recruited them), that takes care of those nasty “playing to lose” sort of fellows quite Easily. But I think it’s up the Mod to figure out how to create roles to deal with players who play to lose them. so Story gets a clean pass from me, but mostly because he’s got a Win condition already- Town. If he started out a recruiter, and just blew it. Yeah, i’d be irked. Same way if i found a scum who just broke the game by naming all the scum day 1. Then that guy is an asshole. But that’s not the case here. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/89 "2008-06-11T01:40:28Z")
[QUOTE=RoOsh] It depends on the case. I think in this case, the Vampire role was just poorly written up or is quite unknown. If i was to create a Recruitment Role, I would certainly factor this point- the chance a player may try to blow it. It’s happened before in games where Scum have blown it for their team (usually unintentionally, but still). It’s just a reason that Recruitment is SO tricky to deal with, and its much easier to have “blind” recruitment then (ie: the player is UNAWARE who recruited them), that takes care of those nasty “playing to lose” sort of fellows quite Easily. But I think it’s up the Mod to figure out how to create roles to deal with players who play to lose them. so Story gets a clean pass from me, but mostly because he’s got a Win condition already- Town. If he started out a recruiter, and just blew it. Yeah, i’d be irked. Same way if i found a scum who just broke the game by naming all the scum day 1. Then that guy is an asshole. But that’s not the case here. [/QUOTE] Right. And it’s one thing to claim you are going to do something, it is quite another to actually do it. Like I said, when/if player have been/will get bitten they will be/have been made aware of what is expected. People may talk about doing that kind of thing, but no one really wants to be the dick that ruins the game for someone. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/90 "2008-06-11T04:09:52Z")
[QUOTE=NAF1138] People may talk about doing that kind of thing, but no one really wants to be the dick that ruins the game for someone. [/QUOTE] What’s all that talk about mod-killing everyone then? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/91 "2008-06-11T05:01:50Z")
[QUOTE=Doctor Who] What’s all that talk about mod-killing everyone then? 😃 [/QUOTE] That’s why I stick to threats of intestinal distress to players! ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/92 "2008-06-11T17:30:04Z")
I haven’t looked at the spoiler thread yet; it’s too much fun guessing. I notice some players are beginning to talk about the possibility that there are no power roles at all. Normally, I would doubt that, since **storyteller** would have to have guessed that in order to make a false Constable claim, but in this case there were extra Wolf powers listed. If a Wolf noticed his team was all vanilla, despite other roles being described in the setup, he might intuit that it was secretly an all-vanilla game. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/93 "2008-06-11T17:33:12Z")
[QUOTE=WF Tomba] I haven’t looked at the spoiler thread yet; it’s too much fun guessing. I notice some players are beginning to talk about the possibility that there are no power roles at all. Normally, I would doubt that, since **storyteller** would have to have guessed that in order to make a false Constable claim, but in this case there were extra Wolf powers listed. If a Wolf noticed his team was all vanilla, despite other roles being described in the setup, he might intuit that it was secretly an all-vanilla game. [/QUOTE] Man, see, this is why you should be on the spoiler boards. I can’t say anything more here though. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2008, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/94 "2008-06-12T09:46:19Z")
Acording to **JSexton’s** formula: Vanilla town 1 point each Basic scum 4.5 points each The game started with 17 players. If it’s an all vanilla game with 3 scum and 14 town then that works out to scum/town = 13.5/14, which looks pretty damn balanced. Although the scum start with a huge advantage: they can determine that this is possibly (or even probably) an all vanilla game. ETA: Just speculation. I haven’t visited the spoiler boards. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/95 "2008-06-12T21:59:18Z")
OK, clue me in to the spoiler board. After that lynch, I can’t wait any more. I need to know. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/96 "2008-06-13T07:23:43Z")
I would just like to say told you he was scum \* 1000 Thank You ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/97 "2008-06-13T14:48:52Z")
[QUOTE=One And Only Wanderers] I would just like to say told you he was scum \* 1000 Thank You [/QUOTE] Yep, we should have listened to you. It would be a _very_ different game if we did. Sorry, man. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/98 "2008-06-17T18:23:32Z")
It’s absolutely mind-boggling to me how this game is going. What the hell is up with this “I have been bitten by Dracula” distraction? That’s the whole focus of the game right now! C’mon guys, you now know that **storyteller** is a wolf. How about you start trying to figure out who else is one instead of standing around and picking your wedges?? Maybe someone could do a review of **story** ’s posts? Or, as someone suggested but didn’t actually _do_, a review of the remaining players. What are you waiting for?!? Cripes. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/99 "2008-06-17T18:32:11Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] It’s absolutely mind-boggling to me how this game is going. What the hell is up with this “I have been bitten by Dracula” distraction? That’s the whole focus of the game right now! C’mon guys, you now know that **storyteller** is a wolf. How about you start trying to figure out who else is one instead of standing around and picking your wedges?? Maybe someone could do a review of **story** ’s posts? Or, as someone suggested but didn’t actually _do_, a review of the remaining players. What are you waiting for?!? Cripes. [/QUOTE] Don’t beat yourself up about it. It happens just about everytime there is a surefire lynch. The town falls silent because it has to wait for the scum to die before it can continue strategising again. And yes, it is really annoying when it happens. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472/100 "2008-06-17T18:51:28Z")
[QUOTE=CatInASuit] Don’t beat yourself up about it. It happens just about everytime there is a surefire lynch. The town falls silent because it has to wait for the scum to die before it can continue strategising again. And yes, it is really annoying when it happens. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but **story** as much as confessed, so why do they have to wait? Arrgh! You’re right, though, I should really relax about it. :o [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cecilvania-the-forbidden-thread/449472.md?page=6)