# Celcius is really stupid (a rant, I mean dissertation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2000, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549 "2000-02-12T05:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/1 "2000-02-12T05:52:00Z")
Ok, ignoring the _“that’s just how we’ve always done it”_ factor and looking at it from an objective and scientific point of view, _ **there is no reason for any country to use the celcius scale for weather temperature EVER!!** _ Being a red-blooded, arogant American I will not give up my yard stick until they pry my cold dead fingers from around it, **but** , I recognize the obvious advantage of a metric (i.e. base ten) system of measurement. However, **there is no such thing as metric temperature!!!** Temperature is not like inches or quarts. If you have two cups of water, both at 70[SUP]o[/SUP] F and you pour them together you don’t get 140[SUP]o[/SUP] F water. Temperature is more of an abstract scale rather than a quantitative measurement. Consequently, the correct scale to use is based solely on its relavence to the situation and not the ability of its units to be easily factored. Put simply, when dealing with weather, **on average,** what’s the coldest it gets? Call that point A (or 0[SUP]o[/SUP] F). What’s the hottest? Call that point B (or 100[SUP]o[/SUP] F). Divide the two points by 100 units (hey, base ten!) and you’ve got the perfect system for measuring air temperature, the fahrenheit scale! Yes, if you’re a chemist computing ergs, joules & calories then of course you use celcius. But its because these units are all based on _each other,_ **not ten!** In day to day life air temperature only affects _the human situation._ In other words, if you hear that its 12[SUP]o[/SUP] F in the morning, you know that means your car will need to warm up a little. Not because the fahrenheit temperature scale is crossindexed to the heating coefficient of the aluminium/iron alloy comprising your car’s engine block, but because, on a scale of 0 to 100, _12 is pretty friggin’ low!_ My point is that using celcius as an air temperature scale is ridiculous not just in the way using say light-years to measure sparkplug gap would be ridiculous, but in the way using pints to measure string would be. You could do it, but why? It’s not designed for it **at all.** Fahrenheit, in every way, is. ---
**Author:** ![Abner\_Normal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@Abner\_Normal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abner_Normal)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/2 "2000-02-12T06:00:00Z")
Hail Ants… A bit of trivia… To make it even worse. Celsius was the other way around when it was first put forward. 0 was boiling, 100 was freezing. \This space for rent\ * * * “Tell me and I’ll forget; Show me and I may remember; Involve me and I’ll understand.” - Old Chinese Proverb ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/3 "2000-02-12T06:34:00Z")
Interesting rant. I’ve thought the same thing very often. Except that I’m Canadian, so it’s “why the fuck was 32 degrees picked for freezing? And boiling is 212? You’re kidding, right? Dudes, Celsius makes way more sense.” Who cares what the mean coldest and warmest temperatures are? I don’t think 12 F is cold because it’s below some average - I think that 12 is cold because, when it’s cold out, it’s 12 or 0 or -20. In fact, growing up in Saskatchewan, 0 (freezing, in Celsius) is a very convenient cutoff point: lower than that, and it’s time for a winter coat; higher, and light jacket or sweater is enough. ## It’s a learned habit, not a calculation. The design of a temperature scale matters far less than the fact that you’re used to it. Never attribute to an -ism anything more easily explained by common, human stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/4 "2000-02-12T06:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Being a red-blooded, arogant American I will not give up my yard stick until they pry my cold dead fingers from around it, **but** , I recognize the obvious advantage of a metric (i.e. base ten) system of measurement. However, **there is no such thing as metric temperature!!!** Some comments: 1. There IS sucn a thing as metric temperature, because the metric system defines it. The SI system (and the older CGS system) defines the Kelvin and Celsius as units of temperature. 2. The comparison to light-years is extreme. In both Celsius and Fahrenheit scales, for most everyday uses you only need two digit integers. In both systems, you need to use negative numbers once in the weather forecast once in a while, for most countries. 3. We’re all familiar with ice water and boiling water, and they have well defined temperatures. Using these as standards doesn’t seem any more arbitrary than using ‘the coldest it gets’ and ‘the hottest it gets.’ 4. If the whole world used the Fahrenheit I’d say there is no need to change. I certainly don’t complain about the oil industry using barrels instead of kilolitres, or the jewelry industry using karats instead of miligrams. But Fahrenheit is used in so few countries. Do you seriously think that the few ‘practical’ advantages, if any, outweigh the one major disadvantage, that nobody else in the world knows what it is? ---
**Author:** ![MrSleep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5ac83/32.png) [@MrSleep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSleep)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/5 "2000-02-12T09:09:00Z")
The metric system, even celsius measurments, is fantastic for someone with a scientific mind. I’m as red-blooded, God-fearing American\* as you can get, and I still see why celsius kicks the crap out of fahrenheit: 1. Nobody on the face of the planet uses faranheit except for us Americans. 2. Celsius is an integral part of the metric measurement of energy (1 Joule = the amount of heat required to heat on cm^3 of water one degree celsius at 1 atmosphere, or something like that) 3. Saying the word “celsius” sounds much more scientific than the word “fahrenheit.” 4. “Fahrenheit” is really difficult to spell. \*Okay, two out of three ain’t bad, right? ---
**Author:** ![NanoByte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecc23a/32.png) [@NanoByte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NanoByte)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/6 "2000-02-12T09:59:00Z")
Well, I think the author of the OP was strung out on a pint when on that rant, but when I was in school they called ‘Celcius’ ‘Centigrade’ (which seemed more logic, considering its scale, and yeah, I think even Mr. Sleep could spell it in his sleep). So I wonder if Mr. Sleep, as an expert in which words sound scientific, could tell us why they changed Centigrade to Celcius. As far as Fahrenheit, as an American, it ain’t the only thing American (well, as a hand-me-down) I don’t like. For almost all everyday uses, you don’t need the F scale’s nearly twice-as-high resolution, and without that resolution, C avoids 3 digits almost all the time. Ray (whatever’s cool) ---
**Author:** ![MrSleep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5ac83/32.png) [@MrSleep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSleep)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/7 "2000-02-12T10:45:00Z")
Indeed, at one time world scientists referred to celsius as centigrade, but then several important events occured: 1. They realized that in the United States, centigrade actually means 100th grade! How can we expect normal people to relate to something that requires that much education? 2. Centigrade kinda sounds like centipede, and those things are icky! 3. The entire concept of “grading” someone based on their “centi” or, in latin, their “sentience” seemed a little, well, anti-American. By God, we respect all people, sentient or not! So, after almost three months of debate the World-Government-By-European-Measurement-And-Fractions-Congress decided that in order to fully subjugate the American people, a change was in order. And thusly, the “celsius” scale was born. ---
**Author:** ![tbea925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@tbea925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tbea925)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/8 "2000-02-12T13:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Hail Ants: > \*\*Ok, ignoring the _“that’s just how we’ve always done it”_ factor and looking at it from an objective and scientific point of view, _ **there is no reason for any country to use the celcius scale for weather temperature EVER!!** _ You are aware, I’m sure, that the metric system of weight (a gram) is defined on a cubic centimeter of water at 4 degrees C. The behavior of water is the basis of much of what happens on the planet. It behaves the same way whether you are in the United States or China. It’s only natural that the basis of measuring molecular activity (temperature) and weight is based on water as well. * * * This sig not Y2K compliant. Happy 1900. ---
**Author:** ![WillGolfForFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/82dd89/32.png) [@WillGolfForFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillGolfForFood)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/9 "2000-02-12T13:17:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by tbea925: > \*\* You are aware, I’m sure, that the metric system of weight (a gram) is defined on a cubic centimeter of water at 4 degrees C.\*\* Just to keep things on a scientific keel, isn’t 4 degrees C the temperature at which water is at its highest density? IE, that particular temperature was picked for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/10 "2000-02-12T14:51:00Z")
Besides the fact that the Centigrade (Celsius) scale is more widely used in the world, to quote the master, Cecil Adams, in his column [On the Fahrenheit scale, do 0 and 100 have any special significance? (15-Dec-1989)](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_188.html): > [@](#): > > Everybody agrees > Celsius’s scale makes more sense than Fahrenheit’s. I say “ **Case closed**.” ---
**Author:** ![BigRoryG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f07891/32.png) [@BigRoryG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigRoryG)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/11 "2000-02-12T15:57:00Z")
I believe the key word in the OP wasthe Word \>Rant\< and as Dennis Miller always says when he rants, “…but hey,that’s just my opinion, i could be wrong.” And in this case I believe that is what has happened. Everyone has provided valid points, ut one I can’t believe no one mentioned was the freezing point of precipitation. In general terms, below 0°C the rain generally turns to snow and the puddles into Ice. This is a weather milestone and is very important if you’re talking about the convenience and usefulness and reasonableness in terms of the air temperature. Also, the scientific applications are obvious to anyone with (insert flame here). Peace. * * * “C’mon, it’s not even tomorrow yet…” - Rupert If you need a graphic solution, [http:\ alk.to\Piglet](http://talk.to%5CPiglet) ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/12 "2000-02-12T16:19:00Z")
Its not metric, its not american, its not celcius: Cel•si•us "sel-se-es, -shes\ adjective [Anders Celsius] (ca. 1850) : relating to, conforming to, or having the international thermometric scale on which the interval between the triple point of water and the boiling point of water is divided into 99.99 degrees with 0.01° representing the triple point and 100° the boiling point \<10° Celsius\> — abbr. C — compare centigrade ©1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/13 "2000-02-12T16:25:00Z")
For God sakes, people… **just double the °C and add 30!** No it’s not exact, but it gives a good ball park if you happen to find yourself on WWTBAM and don’t have any lifelines left. I’m okay with it, as long as you don’t pronounce it _sell-shus_. * * * In· **flam** ·ma·ble, _a_. Flammable. ---
**Author:** ![docandjean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7993a0/32.png) [@docandjean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/docandjean)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/14 "2000-02-12T17:13:00Z")
double the C and add **32** or if you really want it right, Multiply the C temp by 9/5 then add 32 to get the F temp. ---
**Author:** ![Erratum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Erratum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erratum)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2000, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/15 "2000-02-13T06:23:00Z")
**Hail Ants** : “_I recognize the obvious advantage of a metric (i.e. base ten) system of measurement._” I disagree with that, though that’s probably for another thread. “_Put simply, when dealing with weather, on average, what’s the coldest it gets? Call that point A (or 0[sup]o[/sup] F). What’s the hottest? Call that point B (or 100[sup]o[/sup] F). Divide the two points by 100 units (hey, base ten!) and you’ve got the perfect system for measuring air temperature, the fahrenheit scale!_” I definitely agree with that. While there are some locations where about 100 degree temperatures are common and some where below 0 degree temperatures are common, these are the exceptions rather than the rules. Also, if you do encounter these exceptions, you know that it’s either _really_ hot or _really_ cold. The Celcius scale forces you to deal with negative numbers _frequently_ during winter, which is a recipe for errors. Everyone who has ever done or corrected math homework knows that it is far easier to lose negative signs than to actually screw up the value of a number. From Cecil’s Column: > [@](#): > > But zero was totally arbitrary, the main consideration > apparently being that it should be colder than it ever got in Denmark. (Romer didn’t like using negative numbers in his > weather logbook.) This is written in a disparaging manner, but the desire to avoid negative numbers is a good one, and “colder than it ever gets in Denmark” is also colder than it ever gets where _I_ live. **scr4** : “_In both systems, you need to use negative numbers once in the weather forecast once in a while, for most countries._” I can’t remember the last time I experience temperatures greater than a hundred or below zero. However, I encountered a temperature below freezing just a few weeks ago. There’s a difference between “almost never” and “every winter”. “_We’re all familiar with ice water and boiling water, and they have well defined temperatures. Using these as standards doesn’t seem any more arbitrary than using ‘the coldest it gets’ and ‘the hottest it gets.’_” Call me crazy, but I think that human experience should be the basis for reporting things like what humans will experience (e.g. the weather), and that the experience of liquid water is somewhat tangential to that. **MrSleep** : “_Saying the word “celsius” sounds much more scientific than the word “fahrenheit.”_” Here’s a rough outline I’ve had about this topic in the past. **Me** : “The number ranges you use for weather reporting are more comfortable in Fahrenheit, and you rarely have to use negative numbers.” **Opponent** : “Celcius is more _scientific_ than Fahrenheit” **Me** : “Kelvin is more _scientific_ than Celcius, why don’t you use that?” **Opponent** : “Because then you’d have to deal with ridiculously big numbers all the time!” **Me** : “Oh, so which numbers you have to use and the relative convenience thereof is important to the choice of a measurement scale? The number ranges you use for weather reporting are more comfortable in Fahrenheit, and you rarely have to use negative numbers.” **Opponent** : “But Celcius is more _scientific_!” **NanoByte** : “_For almost all everyday uses, you don’t need the F scale’s nearly twice-as-high resolution, and without that resolution, C avoids 3 digits almost all the time._” In my book, that lousy negative sign you need to deal with all winter is far more annoying than an extra digit you sometimes need to use in some areas in the summer. **tbea925** : “_You are aware, I’m sure, that the metric system of weight (a gram) is defined on a cubic centimeter of water at 4 degrees C._” So? There’s a corresponding Fahrenheit temperature for that as well. And besides, if this is such a critical temperature, why isn’t _it_ the basis for the scale? Besides, the density of water doesn’t change all that much with temperature (until it freezes). **Arnold Winkelreid** : “_… the Centigrade (Celsius) scale is more widely used in the world_” [condescending mother voice]And if all the other countries jumped off a bridge, would you do it to?[/condescending mother voice] 😉 We’re constantly telling the nation’s children not to cave in to peer pressure. How can you possibly think that peer pressure is a compelling argument for anything. 😃 “_In general terms, below 0°C the rain generally turns to snow and the puddles into Ice. This is a weather milestone and is very important if you’re talking about the convenience and usefulness and reasonableness in terms of the air temperature._” This might be an argument for making the freezing point of water a nice round (easy to remember) number, but not for making it zero. A lot of other conditions contribute to this, anyway, though. The most important would be the temperature of the _ground_ which is seldom reported anyway. “_Also, the scientific applications are obvious to anyone with (insert flame here)._” Nobody said scientists weren’t allowed to use Celcius. Furthermore, the scientific applications of the Kelvin scale are even _more_ obvious, but we don’t see the world flocking to Lord Kelvin’s defense, now do we? Besides, scientists use a lot of things that I don’t need on a day to day basis. Most people use “mass” and “weight” interchangeably, but that would annoy _some_ scientists. Why saddle the masses with scales that are inappropriate just because some scientists like to use a particular measurement scale for some applications? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/16 "2000-02-12T19:22:00Z")
Hey, Opus: have you ever seen or heard the routines about “The Great White North” by Bob & Doug MacKenzie? They’re talking about beer (of course); they say that to convert “metric” (Celsius) to Fahrenheit, double and add 30, which is close enough for most of us. However, there’s a disadvantage to Celsius, chiefly in that the interval between freezing and boiling is only 100 degrees while in Fahrenheit it’s 180; and 180 has more factors (2,3,4,5,6,9, etc.) than 100. Besides, unless Celsius temperatures are given with a decimal–as they seldom are–the same temperature in Celsius can be translated into _two_ temperatures Fahrenheit. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/17 "2000-02-12T19:54:00Z")
It’s been ages since I heard that, and at the time I was mainly interested in Geddy Lee’s contribution so I don’t remember much else. I wouldn’t mind hearing it again but I doubt that will be very easy to find. * * * Don Ho can sign autographs 3.4 times faster than Efrem Zimbalist Jr. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/18 "2000-02-12T19:57:00Z")
Hail Ants says: > [@](#): > > I recognize the obvious advantage of a metric (i.e. base ten) system of measurement. To which, Erratum replies: > [@](#): > > I disagree with that, though that’s probably for another thread. Erratum, perhaps you’d be so kind as to explain why it is that engineers use an “Engineer’s Rule” which has the foot divided into tenths, hundredths & thousandths since there’s “no obvious advantage to a decimal-based system.” To address the OP: There’s nothing innate about either the Centigrade (it was originally called Celcius but upon being adopted as part of the Metric (i.e, international standard), it was named Centigrade in obvious reference to the 100 (centi) gradations (grade)) system. If you grew up with the Centigrade system, the Fahrenheit system would seem to have _too many_ gradations for the same shift in heat. Since the OP grew up with the Fahrenheit system, the Centigrade seems to have _too few_ gradations for that shift. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/19 "2000-02-12T19:59:00Z")
Drat! I left out “or the Fahrenheit system” after “(grade)) system” above. Please edit appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![Erratum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Erratum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erratum)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549/20 "2000-02-12T20:10:00Z")
**Monty** : “_perhaps you’d be so kind as to explain why it is that engineers use an “Engineer’s Rule” which has the foot divided into tenths, hundredths & thousandths since there’s “no obvious advantage to a decimal-based system.”_” I’ve never heard of this system. And I do not deny that there are some advantages to the metric system. However, I contend that there are major _dis_advantages, and that few of the advantages (if any) apply in everyday life. If you want to discuss it further, I suggest starting a thread in Great Debates, so this one does not get derailed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celcius-is-really-stupid-a-rant-i-mean-dissertation/17549.md?page=2)