# Celebrity Air & Auto Deaths **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 1, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739 "2002-12-01T05:03:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/1 "2002-12-01T05:03:51Z")
We are often hearing about how air travel is so much safer than going by car. However, I can think of far more celebrity deaths in air crashes than car crashes. Granted, air crashes get more publicity, but that should not distort the picture if we think solely of celebrities - they will get publicity no matter what the method. So, which celebrities died each way? Off the top of my head, I can think of: **Air** Payne Stewart Senator Carnahan JFK Jr Several of Manchester United Some of Lynyrd Skynyrd Buddy Holly Graham Hill John Denver Senator Wellstone Roberto Clemente Thurmon Munson Davey Allison (helicopter) Jim Croce Rocky Marciano **Car** James Dean Marc Bolan Princess Diana There are other air crashes involving notables that wouldn’t have made the news (in such a big way) had they been car crashes, so I’ve excluded those - examples are an African national football team and a US college basketball team, neither of which I can remember precisely. My memory suggests that flying is way more dangerous. Can other dopers add to either list? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/2 "2002-12-01T05:22:13Z")
IIRC many of those air deaths are on small airplanes. They are far less safe than large commercial airliners. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/3 "2002-12-01T05:34:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarone \* > \*\*We are often hearing about how air travel is so much safer than going by car. However, I can think of far more celebrity deaths in air crashes than car crashes. Granted, air crashes get more publicity, but that should not distort the picture if we think solely of celebrities - they will get publicity no matter what the method. > > So, which celebrities died each way? Off the top of my head, I can think of: > > **Air** > > Payne Stewart > Senator Carnahan > JFK Jr > Several of Manchester United > Some of Lynyrd Skynyrd > Buddy Holly > Graham Hill > John Denver > Senator Wellstone > Roberto Clemente > Thurmon Munson > Davey Allison (helicopter) > Jim Croce > Rocky Marciano > > **Car** > > James Dean > Marc Bolan > Princess Diana > > \*\* Auto accidents: 1. 1950s sex symbol Jayne Mansfield 2. Desmond Llewellyn (Q, in all the James Bond films) 3. New York Yankees manager Billy Martin 4)“Gone With the Wind” author Margaret Mitchell 4. Dancer Isadora Duncan (granted, this was a bizarre strangulation, not a crash!) 5. Nobel-winning author Albert Camus 6. Movie director Alan J. Pakula 7. Painter Jackson Pollock 8. Blues singer Bessie Smith 9. Novelist Nathaniel West 10. Princess Grace (formerly Oscar-winning actress Grace Kelly) 11. Singer Lisa “Left Eye” Lopez, from TLC 12. Silent movie cowboy Tom Mix 13. Folk singer Harry “Cat’s in the Cradle” Chapin 14. Hockey star Pelle Lindbergh 15. Baseball Hall of Famer Mel Ott 16. General George Patton 17. Comedian Ernie Kovacs 18. “Summertime Blues” singer Eddie Cochrane 19. Grateful Dead pianist Keith Godchaux 20. Newscaster Jessica Savitch 21. Comedian Sam Kinison 22. Punk rocker Stiv Bator (strictly speaking, he was a pedestrian who got hit by a car, and died of internal bleeding later) Is that enough to get you started? I’d say that the auto crash victims have just creeped back into the lead. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/4 "2002-12-01T05:40:15Z")
Yes, the “safer than driving a car stuff” applies to commercial airliners, and not to small private planes. Something elso to keep in mind – a lot of celebrities fly constantly, many times the distance that average people fly. So the odds catch up to them. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/5 "2002-12-01T05:50:11Z")
Plane… Patsy Cline. The entire 1970 Marshall football team. ---
**Author:** ![Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b3f665/32.png) [@Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hanna)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/6 "2002-12-01T05:54:47Z")
Car: 24) Dr. Eugene Shoemaker, he discovered the Shomaker-Levy comet that smashed into Jupiter. According to [this site:](http://www.nsc.org/news/nr092801.htm) > [@](#): > > “Based on passenger-miles traveled over the period 1995 through 1999, and depending on the length and type of trip, the risk of death from driving is up to 37 times greater than from flying.” I feel much better flying than driving. I think part of the reason people feel safer driving is because they feel more in control. But when you think about all the other drivers out there (who may also feel in control) and all the things that can happen, even a routine trip to the grocery store can be dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/7 "2002-12-01T05:56:09Z")
“Several” of Manchester United? Wasn’t it “most” or “ALL” of Manchester United? ---
**Author:** ![aeropl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f05b48/32.png) [@aeropl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aeropl)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/8 "2002-12-01T06:02:45Z")
Nobody has mentioned the average celebrity has lots of money and a busy schedule. This tends to make them fly a lot more often than the average person. P.S.- it is also safer to fly in a small plane than to drive in a car. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/9 "2002-12-01T07:24:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimboguy \* > \*\* > Something elso to keep in mind – a lot of celebrities fly constantly, many times the distance that average people fly. So the odds catch up to them. \*\* Right on. In order to make a good comparison it would be necessary to report celebrity fatalities per celebritymiletravelled for each travel mode and I don’t think that has ever been done. Probably because the input data are available only at tremendous cost, if at all. ---
**Author:** ![maybelze05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@maybelze05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maybelze05)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/10 "2002-12-01T07:30:59Z")
Aaliyah – place crash… i don’t think it was in up in the air very long, does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/11 "2002-12-01T07:31:53Z")
A lot of the celebrity air crashes are due to pilots being pressured into flying either in bad weather or with equipment needing maintenance. Celebrities have tight schedules, and big egos. They and their managers intimidate their pilots and cause them to make bad judgements. If you read the accident reports for many of the celebrity plane crashes, weather jumps out as a leading cause. Small private and corporate aircraft just can’t handle bad weather like large jets can. And they fly from small strips without deicing equipment, and often have none of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/12 "2002-12-01T07:35:30Z")
Plane: Carol Lombarde, Ricky Nelson ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/13 "2002-12-01T07:43:33Z")
Plane: Senator Roberts (Cokey Roberts’ dad) Wiley Post and Will Rogers ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/14 "2002-12-01T07:59:25Z")
Plane (actually helicopter) Vic Morrow ---
**Author:** ![rexodus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@rexodus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexodus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/15 "2002-12-01T08:01:52Z")
What about guitarist Randy Rhodes? He was killed when his friend flew a plane into the bus he was sleeping in. Is this evidence that air travel is unsafe, albeit indirectly, or that automotive travel is unsafe, even though you don’t actually have to be travelling _per se_ to encounter its hazards? Or is it evidence that having really stupid friends is unsafe? ---
**Author:** ![rexodus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@rexodus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexodus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/16 "2002-12-01T08:13:09Z")
Oops, sorry, I got some of the details wrong. Rhoads (not _Rhodes_ ) was in fact in the doomed plane, not the bus. But there was someone in the stationary bus when it was hit - TV funnyman Ozzy Osbourne! He obviously survived, while his airborn bandmates died. Perhaps this suggests that air travel really is more dangerous than bus travel. Or lack thereof. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/17 "2002-12-01T08:18:23Z")
Don’t forget that Buddy Holly wasn’t alone when his plane went down. The crash also took the Big Bopper and Ritchie Valens. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/18 "2002-12-01T08:59:20Z")
Vehicular: Cliff Burton, original bassist for Metallica. (Tour bus, not car.) Mike Muuss - not a celebrity at all, but the inventor of the PING tool Ben Hollioake, an English cricketer Quasi-pseudo-celeb Michelle Parma of MTV’s Road Rules Wayne Simmons, who played for the Green Bay Packers and KC Chiefs Dale Earnhart Aviation: Stevie Ray Vaughn Reba McIntyre’s (entire?) band Hansie Cronje, South African cricketer (yes, I’m a cricket fan) Galen Rowell, noted photographer and outdoor adventurer Joe Kennedy, Jr. Knute Rockne, famed football coach Glenn Miller, big band leader Otis Redding Senator John Tower Audie Murphy, war hero turned movie actor Senator John Heinz Ron Brown - DNC Chair Samantha Smith, the little girl who came to fame writing an anti-war letter to Russian premier Andropov and later acted in a TV series with Robert Wagner ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/19 "2002-12-01T09:09:48Z")
I would like to point out that John Denver died in an airplane licensed under the category “experimental”, and it was a kitplane. Such airplanes not only carry a higher risk than commercial airlines, but also higher than the ordinary, factory-built small airplane. Denver was experienced enough as a pilot to be aware of the risks he was running, and chose to take them anyway. (Just for the record - I’ve flown airplanes in that category, too - they aren’t deathtraps, but like I said, there is an additional level of risk.) Wiley Post was, among other things, a test pilot. As a professional pilot, and one operating in a dangeorus area at that, the odds of him dying in an airplane were very much higher than other folks, be they drivers or pilots. Vic Morrow was not in the helicoptor that killed him. He was on the ground, filming a scene in a movie. So I think you have to take him off the “air travel is dangerous” list because he wasn’t traveling at the time, and wasn’t in the air. Aaliyah’s plane crash was due in large part to pressure on the pilots to load too much stuff into the airplane. As a result, they never really got airborne. Are we counting helicoptors separately, or not? Stevie Ray Vaughn would be on that one. A big factor in Celebrity Air Crashes (is it just me, or does that sound like a Fox News Special?) is the “I gotta get there” factor, which prompts people to push forward into bad weather. Those crashes include, but are not limited to: Jim Croce Buddy Holly Richie Valens Big Bopper Senator Wellstone JFK, Jr. (possibly) Governor Carnahan I know of one pilot in my area who moderately well known rock star once tried to hire to fly him to his next gig. The weather was so bad the commercial airlines weren’t flying that day, much less smaller airplanes. Apparently Mr. Big Shot became quite belligerent, then threatening (along the lines of “I’ll talk to my friends and you’ll never get business again and be out of work”, etc.) Ended up with Mr. Rock Star screaming into the phone “You don’t understand - _I gotta get there tonight_” at which point my acquaintance shot back with “I’m sure that’s what Buddy Holly said just before he got on the airplane, too” Which apparently shut up Mr. Rock Star and brought the conversation to a screeching halt. Mr. Big Shot was not able to charter a plane that day and was a day late to his next gig - but while Mr. Big Shot was late, he was not the “late Mr. Big Shot”. That’s just one example of a killer attitude and the pressures that get thrown at a charter pilot. Not to mention the pressure thrown at performers. Some folks _do_ sue when the concert doesn’t happen as scheduled, apparently not caring that sometimes things are a cancelled for a very good reason. Personally, I’d rather a favorite performer miss a date than wind up dead. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739/20 "2002-12-01T09:11:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by EJsGirl \* > \*\*“Several” of Manchester United? Wasn’t it “most” or “ALL” of Manchester United? \*\* Eight players were killed, nine survived the crash. The total number of deaths was twenty-three. [More about it here](http://www.munich58.co.uk/victims/victims.asp). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celebrity-air-auto-deaths/139739.md?page=2)