# Cell Phone Companies allowed to lie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-companies-allowed-to-lie/554948 "2010-09-25T00:51:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-companies-allowed-to-lie/554948/1 "2010-09-25T00:51:33Z")
I have asked this question in the past, however I may have worded it poorly and as I think about it I probably didn’t really convey the right idea…so here I’ll try again. We all know that cell phones can offer multiple functions nowadays. Talk, text, and data services like internet and picture messaging. Based off my experience, it seems like the “data network” and the “voice/text” network are actually two separate infrastructures. How exactly they differ I don’t know, and I hope to understand with your help. Here’s my example: I have a blackberry bold 9700. I use AT&T, and have the mandated “unlimited data” plan, the one no longer offered, for $30 extra a month. The phone has a full web browser, so it renders web pages just like you see them on your home computer, but formatted for a tiny screen. I’ll be looking at my phone, checking out reception in a given area, and notice that I’ve got symbols which indicate “full reception” (whatever THAT means), and the uppercase 3G, which is supposed to indicate full 3G capability in the area, as opposed to the lowercase 3g, or the “EDGE”/“edge”, which is even crappier. So in one of these situations I can make phone calls. I can send and receive text messages. And … sometimes … I can use the web. Mind you, I have full reception for voice/text, but every once in a while, the data connection quits. It’ll go from full on 3G “fast” data transfer, rendering the Straight Dope onto my 3.5 inch screen effortlessly. Then…it just stops. It’ll say “requesting” in the data progress bar at the bottom of the screen. But nothing ever comes of that request… So…WTF is this all about? I guess my specific question for this forum is two part: 1. Are the voice/text networks different from the data networks? 2. Is AT&T violating the contract by not reliably offering the services I’m paying for? I did sign a contract for “unlimited” data usage, whatever that means…I know there’s hidden caps on that, but I’d at least like predictable access. 2.A. What recourse, if any, would I have? Get out of the contract early? A refund? A tissue for my sorrows? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-companies-allowed-to-lie/554948/2 "2010-09-25T01:54:02Z")
I don’t know about ATT, but when I look on my Verizon map, it definitely shows different coverage areas for voice/text, vs. 3G. And when I look at the small print, I see: > [@](#): > > These Coverage Locator maps are not a guarantee of coverage and may contain areas with no service. These maps reflect a depiction of predicted and approximate wireless coverage of the Verizon Wireless Network and the network of other carriers. The coverage areas shown do not guarantee service availability, and may include locations with limited or no coverage. Even within a coverage area, there are many factors, including a customer’s equipment, terrain, and proximity to buildings, foliage, and weather that may impact service. An all-digital device will not operate or be able to make 911 calls when digital service is not available. Some of the coverage area includes networks run by other carriers; some of the coverage depicted is based on their information and public sources and we cannot ensure its accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-companies-allowed-to-lie/554948/3 "2010-09-25T02:21:30Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I don’t know about ATT, but when I look on my Verizon map, it definitely shows different coverage areas for voice/text, vs. 3G. And when I look at the small print, I see: > > > [@](#): > > > > These Coverage Locator maps are not a guarantee of coverage and may contain areas with no service. These maps reflect a depiction of predicted and approximate wireless coverage of the Verizon Wireless Network and the network of other carriers. The coverage areas shown do not guarantee service availability, and may include locations with limited or no coverage. Even within a coverage area, there are many factors, including a customer’s equipment, terrain, and proximity to buildings, foliage, and weather that may impact service. An all-digital device will not operate or be able to make 911 calls when digital service is not available. Some of the coverage area includes networks run by other carriers; some of the coverage depicted is based on their information and public sources and we cannot ensure its accuracy. I totally get that…meaning I understand what they’re saying specifically - extenuating circumstances and all that. BUT - this is what gets me. I’ll have data coverage one second, and then, without moving, without any indication from my phone that anything has changed, I’ll lose the data connection. Apparently there will be 3G service available because my phone is sending out pings to determine the quality of the local network, and it registers the information as “3G”, but access to that apparently available network is denied. Then, give it a few minutes, sometimes a few hours, and it’ll be back…without ever moving! _ETA: oh and by the way this is on more than just my current phone…previous blackberry did the same thing, as well as the motorola blur_. Does the wind blow the signal away? WTF? Too many people, not enough bandwidth? If so…how can it register as being “3G”, when an overload of people and corresponding drop in available bandwidth would presumably decrease data speeds enough to bump you down into the “2G” network range? Why would it tell me that 3G is there…when in fact, NO DATA ACCESS whatsoever is available. That is what is rubbing me the wrong way. Not that it’s slow…or that the coverage area isn’t sufficient…mainly my beef is that it’s come and go in a given location. And this is in ANY given location…I travel a lot for work and I’ve tried this all over the northeast part of the USA. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-companies-allowed-to-lie/554948/4 "2010-09-25T03:00:46Z")
You know that by “unlimited” they mean how much, not how often…right? ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-companies-allowed-to-lie/554948/5 "2010-09-25T03:04:04Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > You know that by “unlimited” they mean how much, not how often…right? Sure…that’s what they “mean”. But is sure as \*hell \*aint what they advertise. I really just want to understand the mechanisms behind it all a little bit more. Hence the question: Are there two separate networks, one for voice, and one for data? Do they transmit on separate frequencies? Can the performance of one affect the other? ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-companies-allowed-to-lie/554948/6 "2010-09-25T17:33:52Z")
Is there really nobody out there who understands the cell phone infrastructure well enough to answer this? Or am I just being a whiny little baby? I can’t imagine I am the only person to experience this. Data access on cell phones is quite prevalent nowadays…somebody else must have experienced something similar. Anybody? Commiseration? Explanation? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-companies-allowed-to-lie/554948/7 "2010-09-25T21:03:44Z")
> [@echo6160](#): > > So…WTF is this all about? > > I guess my specific question for this forum is two part: > > 1. Are the voice/text networks different from the data networks? Data uses packet switching I believe, just like that network you use at home, sending out and receiving data bursts over eight or something hops, while voice is 1 hop. I could be corrected on that, your network will vary. > [@](#): > > 1. Is AT&T violating the contract by not reliably offering the services I’m paying for? I did sign a contract for “unlimited” data usage, whatever that means…I know there’s hidden caps on that, but I’d at least like predictable access. You should have legal weaslage on your contract that mentions this, in some cases like San Francisco, local residents are holding up the ability of AT&T to increase the availabilty of signal, which is beyond their control. What they should do is offer a credit to folks who pay for the same service in good geo areas , while they are stuck in poor reception zones. As well they should publically state on your bill, why you have poor zone coverage, if like San Fran you may be responsible for your own mis fortune. > [@](#): > > 2.A. What recourse, if any, would I have? Get out of the contract early? A refund? A tissue for my sorrows? > > :dubious: Count down the days till your contract is up, buy stock in Johnson and Johnson and prepare your conversation with retentions. Check the Internet for information on other carriers, what’s verizon and sprint like. Other than that, acquaint yourself with legal counsel and pursue the matter in court. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-companies-allowed-to-lie/554948/8 "2010-09-25T21:37:49Z")
1. It’s all digital, but voice services don’t need much bandwidth(we’re talking maybe 5-15 kbit/s). 2. Like **Declan** said, there is something in your contract that covers this. There are so many factors that can affect signal strength and performance that it would be foolish for a service provider to give you any absolute guarantees about the reliability of their service. That “unlimited” data of yours only mean that they won’t intentionally throttle your service until you hit the hidden cap on how much data you may use, it doesn’t mean that they promise that real world conditions will actually allow you to reach said cap. ---
**Author:** ![Chris\_Luongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Chris\_Luongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chris_Luongo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-companies-allowed-to-lie/554948/9 "2010-09-26T02:23:55Z")
> [@echo6160](#): > > Is there really nobody out there who understands the cell phone infrastructure well enough to answer this? I don’t have the answer, but I suggest you try [www.howardforums.com](http://www.howardforums.com). I’ve used it many times over the years, especially when comparing and choosing phones. Lots of good information there. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-companies-allowed-to-lie/554948/10 "2010-09-26T07:30:42Z")
Disclaimer: I work for T-Mobile, but am not speaking for them. Furthermore, I’m a router guy with very little experience at the over-the-air/cell site portions of the network, so don’t take anything I say as expert gospel. First, note that 2G and 3G are different technologies, so getting a slow connection on 3G doesn’t mean that the phone designation would change to 2G, any more than a slowdown on a cable modem means that you’re suddenly using dialup. When I had a chance to learn a little about configuring a 2G cell several years back, one thing I did learn is that the channels available on a cell could be configured for voice, data, or a flexible setting that could go either way depending on the demand. I would assume a 3G cell does something similar. So you’re differentiated already in some way at the cell itself. There’s probably a single physical link from the cell site back to a switch, but from there voice and data will be split to different devices to process the traffic. It’s certainly possible that whatever method used by the phone to determine that 3G is available is up, but there’s some issue upstream of that which is preventing traffic from flowing properly.