# Cell phone extras - ENOUGH ALREADY! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107 "2005-11-21T18:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/61 "2005-11-24T03:16:52Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > For the record, AWB has already indicated that she can’t confiscate the phone unless she breaks school rules. I also doubt she can just grab the phone away from someone. Feel free to come up with a solution that won’t get her fired. Thanks for the support. BTW, AWB is a HIM. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/62 "2005-11-24T03:25:04Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Confiscate the bookbags. In my school district (not where my kids attend as they go to private schools), which is a predominantly white, upper middle class, blue ribbon school district, backpacks are verboten at the high schools. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Side_of_the_Floyd)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/63 "2005-11-24T03:58:56Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The question here is what “pay” means. The goal is to provide you with a disruption free learning environment, so that you can actually learn something while you spend your entire day at school. So that you can get a good start in life, with the tools you need to succeed. > > Having idiots constantly disrupting the class deprives you of that environment. You have a harder time learning what you need to learn, a harder time getting what you need out of those long years in school. THAT is paying for what other numbskulls do, not taking a 5 minute quiz. > > Think about [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=346118) It’s about an actor berating a person at a play performance for having a cellphone go off. Those are people who paid good money to be there, and they were thrilled that somebody actually tried to do something to stop the disruption. School is “free” and the customers are kids, so they wind up more angry at the teacher trying to teach than they are at the other students disrupting the effort. > > For the record, AWB has already indicated that she can’t confiscate the phone unless she breaks school rules. I also doubt she can just grab the phone away from someone. Feel free to come up with a solution that won’t get her fired. While you make a compelling argument, I just don’t think that punishing other students for somebody else’s mistake would help. Yes, the classmates would hate the person who did it, but more often than not, they would hate the teacher even more for doing such a stupid thing. From what I’ve observed, when a student dislikes a teacher, they tend to do worse in class. I understand that you think implementing this rule would deter students from letting their cell phones go off in class. I just think otherwise, having seen this rule in action regarding cell phones. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/65 "2005-11-24T13:49:03Z")
> [@lezlers](#): > > Now that’s messed up. I’m all for deducting 10 points from the culprit’s grade, (as I suggested upthread) but what did the students to the right or left of him do? That’s a harsh penalty for someone who didn’t do anything wrong. What’s the justification? The justification is that it will work. The offending student will have to answer to his piers, not just the student bringing pressures that you can’t on your own. A repeat offender will soon find himself ‘isolated’ as no one would want to sit next to him, which would further help bring pressure on him, again more so then you could do just ‘punishing’ that one student. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/66 "2005-11-24T13:52:51Z")
> [@](#): > > The offending student will have to answer to his piers, not just the student bringing pressures that you can’t on your own. Woah, Lets rephrase that one to read The offending student will have to answer to his piers, along with yourself. The students can bring additional pressure that you by yourself simply can’t. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/67 "2005-11-24T13:56:51Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Woah, Lets rephrase that one to read > The offending student will have to answer to his piers, along with yourself. The students can bring additional pressure that you by yourself simply can’t. Or maybe you meant “The offending student will have to answer to his p **e** ers, along with yourself. The students can bring additional pressure that you by yourself simply can’t.” Now go stand in the corner with your dunce hat on. Sincerely Yours A. Peer 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/68 "2005-11-24T14:36:02Z")
Punishing a group for the actions of an individual breeds anger and resentment: the light isn’t worth the candle. REWARDING a group for the actions of individuals breeds positive peer pressure. Especially if you have them competeing against each other, not against you. If this is THAT big of a problem, take the following steps: divide the class into teams of five. On Monday, give a piece of candy to everyone in any team that hasn’t had any sort of electronics infractions (cell phones or music players) or tardies the previous week. Why teams? 1) kids can’t think in terms of pressuing the whole class. It’s too enormous a task. But they can and will do a good job pressuring a handful of teammates 2) You want the ones who had infractions to SEE the others getting candy. Why Monday morning? You want to inspire good behavior. If you give the candy out Friday afternoon, they’ll forget how much not getting candy sucked by Monday. Why candy and not grades? Grades are sacred. They shouldn’t be used for classroom management. More pragmantically, you care too much about grades. You are much more likely to be sympathetic to extenuating circumstances or whatever if their are grades on the line. When it is candy it is much easier to tune out the whining and be consistient, which is the single most important thing here. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/69 "2005-11-24T14:56:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Why candy and not grades? Grades are sacred. They shouldn’t be used for classroom management. Students are there for a reason, cell phone noise distracts the entire class and goes against learning. I see no reason not to penilize any student that purposly interferes with the learning of other students. If you want to do it with a reward instead of a penality, then give 10 points to every student except for the one who’s phone goes off, and the 2 next to him. > [@slaphead](#): > > Now go stand in the corner with your dunce hat on. Now excuse me for a bit while I search of that pointie cap. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/70 "2005-11-24T15:07:45Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Students are there for a reason, cell phone noise distracts the entire class and goes against learning. I see no reason not to penilize any student that purposly interferes with the learning of other students. > > If you want to do it with a reward instead of a penality, then give 10 points to every student except for the one who’s phone goes off, and the 2 next to him. Right, but when a sweet little girl who has no more chance of influencing the prick next to her than of flying to the moon comes up to you crying after class asking if there is anything–anything–she can do to make up the ten points the class lost (or failed to earn) today because of the prick’s cell phone going off, you feel like a total ass. When what it cost her is a Hershey’s kiss, you don’t mind so much and she doesn’t mind so much. But, in my expereicnce, the prick (who is likely failing the class anyway) is more likey to be motivated by the Hershey’s kiss–and more likely to be sympathetic to the little girl being motivated by the Hershey’s kiss–than he ever would be by the grades. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/71 "2005-11-24T15:10:18Z")
Or, put in another way: For the bottom 15% of the class, you care about their grades more than they do, so they have more power when grades are on the line. For that same bottom 15%, they care about getting candy more than you care if they get candy, so you have more power when candy is on the line. You want to be in the position of strength here. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/72 "2005-11-25T03:20:43Z")
The problem with using candy as a reward is that I’ve also banned it. My room is an ITV (interactive television) room, with microphones in the desks, so drinks are verboten. Cell phones because of the distraction, cheating potential, and the aforementioned MP3 player mode. And candy and snacks attract rodents; I’ve already had one die in a roach trap earlier this year. Between classes, I have to do so much @!#?@! cleanup it’s not funny. I give demerits to kids I _see_ eating or drinking anything, but there’s quite a few that do it without me seeing. Then they stuff the wrappers between the desk stations (I have 3 rows of physically attached desks). I don’t see those until a desk gets knocked askew, then tons of wrappers pour out. To top this all off, I have 3 vending machines (down from 5) _right_ outside my door. Management has found a place for two of them, but there aren’t many more places that wouldn’t put the others in front of other classrooms. And they can’t place them _in_ the cafeteria, because it’s against school district policy to have vending machines operating during lunchtime and competing with their income. And my principal can’t get rid of them altogether, because her predecessor signed a contract through 2007. The machines are such a fucking hypocracy! We only allow the kids in the school from 8:00 to 3:15. So their only time they’re supposed to use the machines is 8:00-8:30, 10:05-10:10, and just after the 3:10 dismissal bell. So once they buy the stuff, the only place to eat it is in class, which most (but not all) of us discourage. Our school gets a cut of the profits, but then we offer free/discount breakfast and lunch. But these kids could afford lunch and breakfast if they didn’t buy the crap in the machines! ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/73 "2005-11-25T03:36:11Z")
> [@AWB](#): > > The problem with using candy as a reward is that I’ve also banned it. > > Between classes, I have to do so much @!#?@! cleanup it’s not funny. I give demerits to kids I _see_ eating or drinking anything, but there’s quite a few that do it without me seeing. Then they stuff the wrappers between the desk stations (I have 3 rows of physically attached desks). I don’t see those until a desk gets knocked askew, then tons of wrappers pour out. Kill two birds with one stone then: Monday morning, all the teams with no points (i.e., no infractions) get to chill whilel the other teams do one room-claning task (keep this small, like cleaning out one row of desks, so there is something for each class. It’s the gesture that matters) If NO ONE has any infractions, they all get to chill while you do it. However evil they are, you can cajole them into doing this as long as they see it as a bet between them and you. That can be done. Trust me. I am in a tough school too. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/74 "2005-11-25T16:53:35Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The justification is that it will work. The offending student will have to answer to his piers, not just the student bringing pressures that you can’t on your own. A repeat offender will soon find himself ‘isolated’ as no one would want to sit next to him, which would further help bring pressure on him, again more so then you could do just ‘punishing’ that one student. I get your theory, I just think it’s unnecessarily harsh to those who didn’t _do_ anything. If you’re going to go the whole “punish many for the actions of a few” route, then give the whole class a pop quiz or something. Don’t single out just two other people and dock their grades when they’ve done nothing but make the mistake of sitting next to a jerk. That’s not fair and I seriously doubt your policy would hold up with the administration. I hate those parents who are in the office bitching about every little percieved persecution against junior, but you’d better believe that if my kid were going to that school and I heard about this bullshit policy, I’d be raising holy hell in that office. My kid’s grade should not be put into jeapordy because some other kid is being an asshole, when he’s doing what he should be doing. Sit somewhere else you say? You’re failing to take into account that (1) it’s possible there could be assigned seating and the kids can’t choose who they sit next to and (2) the “unofficial assigned seats” dynamic that often happens in a classroom when there’s not assigned seating. This is how it is for me in law school. We don’t have assigned seats, but a few weeks into the semester we develop an unspoken seating chart and it’s considered rude to sit in someone else’s “seat.” Do you really want classroom battles to start breaking out over who has to sit next to the asshole? I get the whole scenero you must see playing out with your proposed discipline scheme. Everyone shuns the jerk and he stops answering his phone. I just don’t see this happening from my dim recollection of highschool social dynamics. What’s more likely to happen is the socially “weaker” kids will be stuck sitting next to the asshole (who’s not going to give a damn that the two geeks or himself get their grades docked, in fact, he probably thinks it’s funny) all year long, since none of the more popular kids want to and will pressure the other ones into it. If you keep your rule up, by the end of the year all three of them will flunk the class. Only one of them will deserve it. Now tell me what kind of profound lesson will be learned from all of this? ---
**Author:** ![pudytat72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@pudytat72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pudytat72)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/75 "2005-11-25T18:25:39Z")
Give the CellPhone Quiz to the person whose phone went off-not every one else. Maybe that would teach personal responsibility. Or give that person extra homework. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107/76 "2005-11-25T20:24:49Z")
> [@5que](#): > > You need to channel Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: I love you. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cell-phone-extras-enough-already/332107.md?page=3)