# Celtic and Rangers to England - for real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 11, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534 "2002-05-11T20:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/41 "2002-05-13T13:03:16Z")
The Big Three in Holland (Ajax, Feijenoord, PSV) are already negotiating to get into the European Superliga. Ajax is listed on the Amsterdam stock exchange. It’s already happened, L\_C. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/42 "2002-05-13T13:18:27Z")
The European Superliga is happening…bollocks !..have I lost the plot ? I’m not sure I even know what this incarnation of the ‘European Superliga’ is ? - and, more importantly, don’t tell Ramon about it. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/43 "2002-05-13T17:47:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manwithaplan \* > **There are a large number of Irish fans who support a Premiership club and Celtic - a call will have to be made.** I personally know very few Irish who _genuinely_ support both Celtic and an EPL club. While a number of EPL fans here are strongly sympathetic to Celtic (and extremely few wouldn’t at least cheer us on over Rangers), and a (smaller) number of true Celtic supporters also have favourite English teams, when push comes to shove I don’t think most of us will have to think twice before choosing between Celtic and the English club. I remember when Celtic were drawn against Liverpool in the UEFA Cup a few years ago. A lot of the Irish 'Pool fans in San Francisco (where I was living at the time) spoke before the first game about how difficult it was going to have to be to decide who to cheer for. As I recall, only one of them actually ended up going for Celtic. From that point on there was only one of them I continued to consider a “Celtic supporter”. Sorry if that’s ragingly intolerant of me, but that’s how I feel about the matter. Cheer on as many different teams in as many different leagues as you like - I certainly do - but a real supporter _never_ cheers against the team s/he really supports. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/44 "2002-05-13T17:59:00Z")
I swear I only hit “submit” once. Coldie, can you do the honours? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/45 "2002-05-13T21:18:29Z")
Why, of course! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/46 "2002-05-14T16:42:24Z")
NO NO NO! It simply can’t be allowed to happen. _stamps feet_ Firstly it would completely destroy the concept of clubs representing an area. Wimbledon to Dublin was a similar plan that was thankfully ditched (although Milton Keynes hasn’t gone away yet) Where would it stop? The so called Atlantic league would have no obvious obstacles once this precedent has been established. Swansea, Berwick etc are historical quirks, not precedents. This would lead to G14 setting up their own, exclusive, Euro league and the loss of meaningful competition in other countries. (although a league without Arsenal has it’s attractions) I think the arguement about hooliganism is a red herring (although it would undoubtedly happen). If this were a criterion for league membership etc we would hardly be about to welcome Birmingham’s Zulus and Man City’s City Gents into the Premiership (although I do wonder what would have happened if Millwall had qualified). And amongst all this someone had to mention Ramon “daft” Vega. The Horror! The Horror! ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/47 "2002-05-14T17:15:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by owlstretchingtime \* > **I think the arguement about hooliganism is a red herring (although it would undoubtedly happen).** I don’t think it’s a red herring at all. There have already been incidents such as the Celtic-Leeds friendly a few years back when a Leeds firm made arrangements via the internet to meet up with a Rangers mob and together they attacked a Celtic pub in Glasgow (one in which I frequently drink, I might add). Also, our travelling support has a regrettable tendency to spend a good chunk of the 90 minutes in away matches singing IRA songs - next time one of these matches is on the telly, put it on for a few minutes, it’s quite noticeable - I have grave concerns about how well that’s going to go over with the “No Surrender to the IRA” singers amongst the English clubs’ supporters. And I’m sure I needn’t add that the Rangers travelling support has a few problems of their own :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/48 "2002-05-14T20:38:57Z")
Some interesting poll results from various [Rivals.net](http://www.rivals.net/) club sites: Should Rangers and Celtic be invited to join English football? Arsenal Yes 76.2% No 23.8% Aston Villa Yes 32% No 68% Chelsea Yes 42.3% No 57.7% Everton Yes 29% No 71% Leeds Yes 20.7% No 79.3% Liverpool Yes 53.1% No 46.9% Man Utd Yes 50% No 50% Middlesbrough Yes 14.8% No 85.2% Spurs Yes 33.9% No 66.1% West Ham Yes 30.3% No 69.7% ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/49 "2002-05-14T20:42:51Z")
Thankfully it’s all academic for the time being, since the FA has given a categorical “no” and UEFA was relying on agreement between all involved associations. Interestingly, the vitriol directed against this is especially high among second and third division clubs – i.e. those that see themselves losing out on promotion places or on the wrong end of a growing financial divide (what impetus would a Celtic/Rangers move give to that old Premiership Two plan?). **Ruadh** – based on the footie boards I frequent I’d be interested to see a poll of non-Premier fans. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/50 "2002-05-14T20:54:38Z")
Follow that link, Crusoe, and you can see them for yourselves. Oldham Athletic Yes 20% No 80% ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/51 "2002-05-14T20:56:47Z")
Aw feck. Millwall No 33.3% Yes 66.7% (No, I’m not gonna keep doing this all night, but that one’s rather striking.) ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/52 "2002-05-14T21:05:42Z")
In case you needed any confirmation [here’s a cite](http://www.thefa.com/newscontent.asp?Artid=3465) for the FA’s statement (from their own website), and [here’s another](http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/articles/20020514/403553.html) from [SportingNews.com](http://SportingNews.com). Didn’t we agree that this was a non-starter for _next season_ anyway? Don’t be too surprised if we’re having the same debate again next year though (and certainly before the Scottish League split occurs). It still leaves open the question of where Celtic and Rangers _will_ play if they’re not wanted at home or in England. Never mind splitting hairs on those stats **ruadh** , whichever way they’re spliced there’s a clear divide between clubs that have most to lose v those who expect greater profit at least threat to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/53 "2002-05-14T21:14:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*Follow that link, Crusoe, and you can see them for yourselves. > > Oldham Athletic > Yes 20% > No 80% \*\* Interesting. I didn’t even know we’d had a poll on our Rivals site. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534/54 "2002-05-14T21:22:14Z")
I think it’s a Rivals-wide thing, all the sites seem to have them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/celtic-and-rangers-to-england-for-real/108534.md?page=2)