# Censored Poets Society meeting in New Mexico - WHAT THE FUCK, AMERIKKKA!?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 18, 2004, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censored-poets-society-meeting-in-new-mexico-what-the-fuck-amerikkka/245738 "2004-05-18T10:19:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censored-poets-society-meeting-in-new-mexico-what-the-fuck-amerikkka/245738/61 "2004-05-19T12:09:53Z")
Don’t post ANY phone numbers, or addresses, or names that are not in the story. For that matter, don’t assume that the phone number listed for John Doe in the same city is necessarily the phone number of the John Doe in the story. Lynn For the Straight Dope ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censored-poets-society-meeting-in-new-mexico-what-the-fuck-amerikkka/245738/62 "2004-05-19T12:13:46Z")
**Lynn** , I understand what you’re saying, but this isn’t the guy’s home phone number. It’s a publicly available number that appears right on the school’s Web site. (I know, I checked.) Are you concerned that posting the number would violate his privacy, somehow? ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censored-poets-society-meeting-in-new-mexico-what-the-fuck-amerikkka/245738/63 "2004-05-21T12:26:24Z")
Why isn’t this bigger news? It’s an absolute fucking outrage. It just shows you how much those fucking asshole right-wing “patriots” really love “freedom,” even though it’s their favorite word. If we lived in anything like a country that valued freedom he’d be fired. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censored-poets-society-meeting-in-new-mexico-what-the-fuck-amerikkka/245738/64 "2004-05-21T12:53:48Z")
> [@dantheman](#): > > **Lynn** , I understand what you’re saying, but this isn’t the guy’s home phone number. It’s a publicly available number that appears right on the school’s Web site. (I know, I checked.) Are you concerned that posting the number would violate his privacy, somehow? Probably more concerned that the school district may claim this means the Chicago Reader is participating in a concerted action to harrass the Principal. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lodoen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@Jeff\_Lodoen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lodoen)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censored-poets-society-meeting-in-new-mexico-what-the-fuck-amerikkka/245738/65 "2004-05-22T06:36:11Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > Why isn’t this bigger news? It’s an absolute fucking outrage. It just shows you how much those fucking asshole right-wing “patriots” really love “freedom,” even though it’s their favorite word. If we lived in anything like a country that valued freedom he’d be fired. I’m about as right as you get, but not stupid-right. If even a few of these actions are proven, can his ass… ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censored-poets-society-meeting-in-new-mexico-what-the-fuck-amerikkka/245738/66 "2004-05-26T05:31:53Z")
Hey DrDeth, I haven’t been able to get back here to post some more since I started this thread because of several concurrent events in my personal life taking up all my time, so FUCK YOU. You try to weasel around the rule against calling someone a troll, while still insinuating it, so FUCK YOU some more. I can fucking well vent my outrage against a country that allows freedoms to be trampled so callously by spelling it with KKK, and if you don’t like it you can go fuck yourself. You call my OP inflammatory, but fuck that shit, the actual event is what’s inflammatory, and I’m just reporting it (with the added rage that any American who loves freedom naturally feels when seeing it trampled). So your pointless post is totally fucked in the head. Have a nice day. To those of you trying to defend the fascist actions of the school principal on the grounds that the student poetry isn’t good enough, that is just as fucked up as the fuckwad principal for missing the whole fucking point of what it means to teach American values to students. Such as the freedom, even the responsibility, of the citizens to criticize the “goddam motherfucking Commander in Chief!”\* \*Credit goes to President John F. Kennedy, USN (ret.) for originating that choice turn of phrase, in reference to himself. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censored-poets-society-meeting-in-new-mexico-what-the-fuck-amerikkka/245738/67 "2004-05-26T17:47:10Z")
What about those of us who support the “fascist” principal on the grounds that the article in the OP is a big fucking lie? > [@](#): > > Thank you for your call asking for the information on our statement on the recent Daytona Beach newspaper editorial. Here it is. . . . > > Statement Regarding Recent Publications Referring to the Nevins Lawsuit > > Recently, the Daytona Beach News-Journal published an editorial highly critical of Rio Rancho High School and some of its staff members. It was written by Bill Hill, a columnist for the paper and, he states, a friend of Bill Nevins, an untenured teacher whose contract was not renewed at the end of the 2002-03 school year. Mr. Nevins is currently engaged in a legal action against the Rio Rancho Public Schools. > > While we recognize the right of newspapers to engage in fair criticism, such criticism should be grounded in the facts. We are disturbed that neither the writer nor the Daytona Beach News-Journal contacted the school district for information or comment. This editorial, simply put, is rife with inaccuracies, misinformation, and outright untruths. Its publication constitutes a reckless disregard for the truth to such a degree that Rio Rancho Public Schools has asked its lawyers to review and evaluate what legal recourse may be available. > > Because Mr. Nevins’ case is in litigation and involves a personnel issue, Rio Rancho Public Schools has been limited in what it can say in response to the many misrepresentations that have appeared in the media. We are unable to discuss the reasons Mr. Nevins was not rehired. However, we can state the reasons have nothing to do with the exercise of free speech or free expression. This is not a free speech issue. > > The original lawsuit included three causes of action. Two of these claims, for breach of his employment contract and for retaliation, have since been dismissed by the federal court. > > We wish to assure the public that the teaching, reading, and writing of poetry are alive and well at Rio Rancho High School. The editorial’s contention that the school’s principal ordered an end to the teaching, reading, and writing of poetry is so ludicrous as to be almost laughable. > > While we cannot discuss a case in litigation, we can address some of the inaccuracies in the editorial that are not part of the case: > > The editorial describes an incident involving art students and teachers and “un-American” student posters. This incident did not occur at Rio Rancho High School or anywhere in the Rio Rancho Public Schools. It happened in a neighboring New Mexico school district and was widely reported by the local media. A cursory check of the archives of the Albuquerque papers would have revealed this fact. > > Neither the Rio Rancho School Employees, Union (the union representing most district employees) nor the American Civil Liberties Union are parties to the current legal action. > > The editorial states that the principal read a patriotic poem at a flag-raising ceremony and shouted “shut your face,” to those who did not share his opinion. There was indeed a ceremony held to receive a flag that had been flown in the war theatre and donated to the school. A student read a poem written by a soldier serving in Iraq. The “shut your face” reference is part of this poem. > > The editorial states that Mr. Nevins was unable to go to work at another school because the principal wouldn’t forward his credentials. On September 11, 2003, the Rio Rancho Observer reported that Mr. Nevins was employed at a public charter school in Albuquerque. Procedurally, requests for credentials must be properly authorized by the employee and submitted to the Human Resources Department (not the principal). All such requests are promptly processed. > > The editorial describes a poem written by a student named Courtney, and states that her mother (described as being a teacher at the school) was ordered by the principal to destroy the girl’s poem or face dismissal. Not true. The student’s mother is not a teacher; however, she was and continues to be employed by the school district. She was never threatened with being fired, nor was she ordered to destroy the poem. > > The district stands behind former RRHS principal Gary Tripp and others who have been unfairly maligned in this editorial and in other media in the months since Mr. Nevins’ departure. We also regret that Courtney and her family have been subjected to unwanted public attention. About a year ago, Courtney wrote a statement that was published in two local papers as a letter to the editor. She has given us permission to share this letter with you, and we hope it helps you further understand this situation. > > Thank you for your inquiry and for giving us the opportunity to respond. We look forward to a resolution of this issue in the legal system. Also: > [@](#): > > To Whom It May Concern: > > This is the first and last time I will discuss publicly the controversy surrounding my poem, the Slam Poetry Club, and RRHS teacher Bill Nevins, the club’s sponsor. > > During the fall semester at RRHS I wrote a poem entitled “Revolution X.” I, along with other students, delivered poetry in the Performing Arts Center at the high school. We received praise from staff and students in the packed auditorium. Early in the spring term, I read my poem again on the school announcements. This poem is a social commentary. It comments on how our society claims to value education, but in actuality spends energy, time and resources on other things, such as war. A staff member, who has a military background and military mindset, complained about the poem, saying it was an anti-war speech. I can only assume that he cannot distinguish between a speech and a poem, or that he did not recognize it as an allegory. > > Due to the complaint, the administration asked for a copy of the poem. No one demanded that my parents “search my room” for the poem, as has been reported. I delivered it to the RRHS administrators when I got back from Spring Break because they wished to read it. They read it, looking for two things: profanity and incitement to violence. They found neither. I was not disciplined. My freedom of speech was not violated. It has been suggested that I was not disciplined because my parents are on staff at the high school. Let me assure you that’s not the case. In my years at Rio Rancho High School, I’ve been tardy to class and been busted for dress code, receiving my fair share of hours in after-school detention. Staff members’ kids are not given preferential treatment. > > When I asked the administration why Mr. Nevins was put on administrative leave, I was told that the reasons would not be discussed with me, but that they had absolutely nothing to do with me or my poem. I accept that. The administration at RRHS has been nothing but supportive of my poetry endeavors and continue to encourage my writing, even in light of all this nonsense. > > Will the Slam Poetry Club continue to function in the absence of Mr. Nevins? I don’t know. I don’t plan to participate because I simply do not have the time. I’m trying to make a good grade in Chemistry, maintain my GPA, choose a college for next year, and get on with my life. > > However, I am angry about two things. My poem has been put on the Internet. I did not give permission for anyone to print it or copy it. What makes it worse is that lines have been changed and added. My poem has been prostituted for the world to see. My freedom of speech has been violated because I chose not to speak, but now my words are under scrutiny despite my attempts otherwise. > > My family and I have been bombarded for weeks with questions about all of this by newspapers, TV stations, and even national publications. My family’s well-earned Spring Break was interrupted repeatedly. This has caused undue stress for my family and is not appreciated. I will comment no further on the subject. I will accept neither calls nor visitors wishing to discuss anything pertaining to this issue. Now that curiosity has been satisfied, I can only hope that we will focus on something more important, like bringing home everyone fighting in the war we insist on having. > > Sincerely, > > Courtney Butler From the comments of [_The Agitator_](http://www.theagitator.com/archives/012034.php#comments). If Lynn hadn’t laid down the law, I’d say his phone number should be reposted so that some of you could call and apologize. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censored-poets-society-meeting-in-new-mexico-what-the-fuck-amerikkka/245738.md?page=3)