# censoring language on TV **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 12, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639 "2011-05-12T11:41:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/21 "2011-05-13T13:38:20Z")
I really don’t see why this is such an issue. There is a time and a place for everything and that includes bad words. But there is also a place for show with NO bad words. I have no problem with setting aside a block of time with, so called “safe” programming and allowing mature programming at other times. It’s really not that big of a compromise. I happen to be a big fan of innuendo and I am also a huge fan of OTR. They always manage to get a LOT across without profanity. Look at the great movies of the 40s about WWII. Now come on, realistically you’re not gonna have a bunch of Marines or other military persons without a massive amount of swearing. Yet it doesn’t appear in the movies of those times. But the movies are so well written you really don’t miss it. Unrealistic yes, marines would be cussing up a storm, but it shows that language isn’t going to make a bad film good and lack of it, isn’t going make a good film too unrealistic to watch. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/22 "2011-05-13T15:40:46Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I do. Swearing is way overused in movies, especially comedies, and too much of it takes me out of the experience. I’ve even walked out of movies because of the swearing: _Knocked Up_, I’m looking at you… I did the same with _White Men Can’t Jump_, for the same reason. The sheer volume of profanity just overwhelmed the story. Actually, I ejected the DVD in the middle, but, otherwise, same thing… ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/23 "2011-05-13T19:13:48Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m not worried about shielding my kids from swearing, I just want some"place" we can go w/o being inundated by it. I’m thrilled that there is swearing on Youtube, but that doesn’t mean I want it being broadcast into my home on the TV. The swearing on YouTube IS being broadcast into your home. Just don’t log on. If TV is offensive, change the channel. Don’t get me wrong. There’s a time and place for it in entertainment. Being unemployed, I am a big fan of Phineas & Ferb (especially Perry the Platypus) and iCarly. Both shows are innovative, new outlooks and hilarious. And there’s plenty of sitcoms and dramas that don’t swear, although they have mature content (L&O SVU) and the sits have sexual innuendos. Since both parents started working more regularly, it’s important to actually look up the shows the kids are into and you have to watch an episode or two to make the best decision. That’s the bead news. Television, movies, internet give us more work. Years ago, I saw The Lion King in the theater and when Scar and Mufasa went up the cliff, ONE smart mom took her five year old (a guess) for a bathroom/concessions break. Scar kills Mufasa and Simba cries. So did half of the young audience The mom & kid missed all that, the crying too. I asked the mom later, “How’d you know where that part was?” She said another mom told her, described the scene and plans were made in advance. That IS a lot of work to me, especially from a movie from a family company like Disney, but at least you can search the Internet now, a lot easier than hoping for a helpful neighbor. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/24 "2011-05-13T20:43:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Since both parents started working more regularly, it’s important to actually look up the shows the kids are into and you have to watch an episode or two to make the best decision. One doesn’t follow from the other - if both parents work more regularly (which I’m reading as “both parents work more”), then they have _less_ time to look up the shows the kids are watching. Therefore, knowing that a general rule exists that “from 8-10pm swearing will be eliminated or kept to a bare minimum on the major networks” is far preferable, especially given the fact that we parents are working more. ---
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/25 "2011-05-14T13:35:58Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I do. Swearing is way overused in movies, especially comedies, and too much of it takes me out of the experience. I’ve even walked out of movies because of the swearing: _Knocked Up_, I’m looking at you… > > IMHO, _Independence Day_ is a better movie on TNT precisely because the swearing is removed. > > I even wish that many DVD’s would come with a “family friendly” option with the swearing removed - the above-mentioned ID4 is a perfect candidate for such an option. There is not a single thing swearing adds to that movie. > > And I say this as somebody who swears. Frequently. I even do it on this board. wow…So people like you really DO exist, I had no idea. Exactly what about swearing bothers you? Is there some religious thing i should read into this? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/26 "2011-05-14T15:22:28Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I remember when “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure” was on network TV. > > There’s a scene in the bowling alley, Napoleon has fallen on his face and is swearing “Merde, merde, merde!!” At the theater the subtitles said “Shit, shit, shit!!” On network TV it was “Damn, damn, damn” but you could clearly hear Napoleon’s voice, using the profanity. No apparent attempt to blot it out. > > What? They think we don’t know and language but English? See threads on crudité and carafe for an answer. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/27 "2011-05-14T16:36:37Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > wow…So people like you really DO exist, I had no idea. Exactly what about swearing bothers you? Is there some religious thing i should read into this? Religion may or may not play into it. Taboo words exist in just about every culture. For instance, in the current U.S. culture, the n-word is considered taboo, and religion has nothing to do with it. A lot of people who would have no problem with “fuck” would have a huge problem with “nigger”. And there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s human nature. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/28 "2011-05-14T19:00:38Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > wow…So people like you really DO exist, I had no idea. That was my reaction as well :). But if people like **John T** exist who enjoy watching melonfarmers give people the _flipper_, I guess we should accommodate the fuckers. [QUOTE=Baker] I remember when “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure” was on network TV. There’s a scene in the bowling alley, Napoleon has fallen on his face and is swearing “Merde, merde, merde!!” At the theater the subtitles said “Shit, shit, shit!!” On network TV it was “Damn, damn, damn” but you could clearly hear Napoleon’s voice, using the profanity. No apparent attempt to blot it out. What? They think we don’t know any language but English? [/QUOTE] They probably do. Seriously. Foreign swearing is one of many, many ways American show writers get to sneak stuff in under the censors’ radar. Either it’s because the censors themselves don’t speak foreign, or they do but figure Americans are stupid and don’t know foreign swearwords, I do not know for certain. But I’d put my money on the latter: Terry Pratchett once said, commenting on how his books were being somewhat dumbed down for the American public, that he never set out to nor assumed that public was stupid - but his American publishers did, and asked him for rewrites. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/29 "2011-05-14T19:15:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That was my reaction as well :). > But if people like **John T** exist who enjoy watching melonfarmers give people the _flipper_, I guess we should accommodate the fuckers. > > They probably do. Seriously. Foreign swearing is one of many, many ways American show writers get to sneak stuff in under the censors’ radar. Either it’s because the censors themselves don’t speak foreign, or they do but figure Americans are stupid and don’t know foreign swearwords, I do not know for certain. > But I’d put my money on the latter: Terry Pratchett once said, commenting on how his books were being somewhat dumbed down for the American public, that he never set out to nor assumed that public was stupid - but his American publishers did, and asked him for rewrites. You seem to think that censors have a personal stake in this. They don’t. A few Christian or family-oriented channels will want to maintain the right image, but for other networks, the worry is not that viewers will be offended and change the channel, but that sponsors or the FCC will object, resulting in lost revenue or fines. (The reason, obviously, is that sponsors and the FCC are far more sensitive than the average viewer because they typically–or always in the case of the FCC–respond to complaints by unhappy viewers, not to concerns about what the majority of viewers or the “average” viewer thinks.) If in the past “merde” has been said on TV without garnering complaints by sponsors or the FCC, the network censors don’t really care why. They don’t care if people are too dumb to be offended or too smart to be offended or if they are offended and complain, but the sponsors ad the FCC are ok with it. As long as they avoid loss of revenue and unintended controversy, they’re fine with whatever you want to “sneak by” them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/30 "2011-05-14T22:55:39Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > wow…So people like you really DO exist, I had no idea. Exactly what about swearing bothers you? Is there some religious thing i should read into this? Only if you want to. Or maybe you could read a maturity thing, or a “people are different from me” thing, or whatever “thing” you care to. :rolleyes: The fact is, most people over the age of 25 don’t live in a world where people swear an average of once every 3 minutes, yet a typical comedy that contains 30 “fucks” and “shits” and etc, does. It’s jarring, takes one out of the movie, and, as I said, rarely adds anything to it. _Knocked Up_ was particularly bad at this sort of thing, a movie apparently written by people who think that professionals talk like college students. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/31 "2011-05-14T23:25:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > One doesn’t follow from the other - if both parents work more regularly (which I’m reading as “both parents work more”), then they have _less_ time to look up the shows the kids are watching. > > Therefore, knowing that a general rule exists that “from 8-10pm swearing will be eliminated or kept to a bare minimum on the major networks” is far preferable, especially given the fact that we parents are working more. Certain channels do exactly that, so I’d stick with those like Disney, Nick, Family Channel, etc. You won’t have to worry about swearing OR innuendos. Major networks like ABC, NBC, CBS won’t have swearing, but they have adult situations and innuendos. As far as both parents working more, I meant both parents have 9 to 5ers. They have less time to look it up or watch an episode? Too bad. If you think your kids learn swearing entirely from a television show or channel, you HAVE to find the time. What’s offensive to one family may not be to another. Specifics matter. Hanna Montana is considered family entertainment to many, but I’ve met many people who say Hanna dresses too “slutty”, so no Hanna for them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/32 "2011-05-14T23:42:28Z")
As I said, my kid doesn’t need to hear swearing on TV to learn the words: all she has to do is what kids from time immemorial did… listen to dad. Or get it from their friends. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/33 "2011-05-15T00:46:14Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Because, I don’t want my 4 year old, or my 10 year old for that matter, repeating “fuck”. > [@janeslogin](#): > > But your 4 year old and your 10 year old don’t learn ‘‘fuck’’ from the TV or persons in your home or persons i a restaurant. They learn it the same place we all did, from their peers. True enough. But another option is not letting your kid watch shows with all the “bad” language. > [@Simplicio](#): > > FCC fines are only for broadcast TV though. And yet most cable channels also censor language, at least before 10pm or so. So I don’t think fear of FCC fines are the main driver. No, it’s advertisers. It’s pretty embarrassing that we censor\* as much as we do. We’re like a nation of 6-year-olds sometimes. And we coddle our kids way too much. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/34 "2011-05-15T01:17:21Z")
A few weeks ago, I noticed an ad on Comedy Central for the movie “Your Highness,” which had the word “fuck” in it. I suddenly realized how weird it is that more advertising hasn’t tried to bend these rules. Most advertisers want to avoid controversy, but some like it. I’d think using nudity or bad language would be a great way to generate buzz for something aimed at young people. That’s obviously what they did in this case. It also made em wonder whether this was the first time it’s been done. I don’t watch that much tv these days, so this might not be the first. Have any other ads done this? he closest I can come up with is the Volkswagon ad showing a woman in an accident who started to say the word “shit” but it changed into the tagline “Safe happens.” Brilliant, that ad was. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/35 "2011-05-15T01:29:40Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > The swearing on YouTube IS being broadcast into your home. Just don’t log on. If TV is offensive, change the channel. You tube is not broadcast into people’s homes. You don’t understand the meaning of the word. Broadcast stations are licensed to transmit over the air. If TV is not offensive enough for you then swear during the shows. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/36 "2011-05-20T10:52:57Z")
I don’t get it either. One of the great things about Syfy’s **BSG** was the unintended social experiment that came with the show. They famously took the word “fuck” and turned it in to “Frak” (Sp?). Nobody, as far as I know, had a problem with this. If certain parties are offended by “fuck” then they should absolutely be offended by “Frak” because both words mean the exact same thing! Unless they’re offended by the phonetic sound of fuck. Which just seems too bizarre to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/37 "2011-05-20T11:02:07Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I don’t get it either. > > One of the great things about Syfy’s **BSG** was the unintended social experiment that came with the show. They famously took the word “fuck” and turned it in to “Frak” (Sp?). > > Nobody, as far as I know, had a problem with this. If certain parties are offended by “fuck” then they should absolutely be offended by “Frak” because both words mean the exact same thing! Unless they’re offended by the phonetic sound of fuck. Which just seems too bizarre to believe. Compare and contrast with all the people (in this very thread) who have some sort of problem that the word “fuck” isn’t inserted regularly into every TV show on every channel. It doesn’t change the meaning to use a euphemism, often it didn’t actually contribute to the meaning anyway, but was just punctuation. And yet, the idea that a typical TV channel might choose not to broadcast the word during the day is some sort of outrage.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/38 "2011-05-20T11:03:46Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I don’t get it either. > > One of the great things about Syfy’s **BSG** was the unintended social experiment that came with the show. They famously took the word “fuck” and turned it in to “Frak” (Sp?). > > Nobody, as far as I know, had a problem with this. If certain parties are offended by “fuck” then they should absolutely be offended by “Frak” because both words mean the exact same thing! Unless they’re offended by the phonetic sound of fuck. Which just seems too bizarre to believe. Really? You don’t get it? Hint: It’s not the x number of letters arranged in a certain way that make up a word; it’s the social value and meaning attached to it. This is something that pretty much every 14 year old discovers and triumphantly declares to their parents. “Frak” means nothing to most people, outside of the BSG context. Obviously “fuck” has a social meaning. There’s nothing intrinsically offensive/non-offensive about one or the other. I’m not particularly offended by “fuck” but I also realize that it can have a crude connotation and that many people are offended, so I don’t use it without consideration of others. If you don’t watch network TV, how is this ever something you even run into, btw? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/39 "2011-05-20T14:15:54Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > Really? You don’t get it? Hint: It’s not the x number of letters arranged in a certain way that make up a word; it’s the social value and meaning attached to it. This is something that pretty much every 14 year old discovers and triumphantly declares to their parents. I’m not sure I’m getting you here. Are you saying at 14, children start swearing in front of their parents? If that’s what you’re saying, I disagree. > [@](#): > > “Frak” means nothing to most people, outside of the BSG context. Obviously “fuck” has a social meaning. There’s nothing intrinsically offensive/non-offensive about one or the other. > > I’m not particularly offended by “fuck” but I also realize that it can have a crude connotation and that many people are offended, so I don’t use it without consideration of others. > > If you don’t watch network TV, how is this ever something you even run into, btw? People who didn’t whatch BSG would obviously be off the radar. I’m saying that the people who did watch the show had to know that frak and fuck are the same thing. Hence, they both should have the same social stigma by default. Even an avid 14yo fan of the show would know what a “Mother Fraker” is. 🙂 The OP was talking about censorship on TV. If you’re talking about using the word (fuck) in regular social interactions; I’m on board with you. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639/40 "2011-05-20T15:15:48Z")
Louis CK has a bit about “the n-word” and his objection to it, that when you say “n-word” your audience has to translate it in their head into the word “nigger,” so you’re forcing the audience to say in their head the word that you’re unwilling to say yourself. It’s a good point, and I feel that way about a lot of censoring: if you beep out a word, then I automatically spend some time trying to figure out what word would have been beeped out, and say a string of profanity in my head until I hit on the right word. I’m sure I’m not the only one. That said, in The Stuff of Thought, Steven Pinker references some research showing that (IIRC) the amygdala shows a spike when someone hears a swear word from their native language, a spike generally associated with negative feelings. Swearing apparently causes negative feelings in the heads of the audience, which isn’t necessarily a nice thing to do. > [@JohnT](#): > > The fact is, most people over the age of 25 don’t live in a world where people swear an average of once every 3 minutes You know what? I also don’t live in a world in which adultery is committed once every 41 minutes, or in which mobsters kill someone I know once every couple of weeks, or in which robots attack once every 22 minutes, or in which gunslingers have a shootout in the street once every 82 minutes. I live in a world in which students chat when they’re not supposed to once every 30 minutes, and papers are turned in once an hour, and electronic bells ring four times a day. I watch shows to see things that DON’T happen in my life. I live my own life. It doesn’t remotely jar me out of the experience to watch or hear something that doesn’t reflect my own experience–if it did, there would be no television show or movie that I could watch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censoring-language-on-tv/581639.md?page=3)