# Censure for Rep. Joe Wilson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 10, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546 "2009-09-10T12:15:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/1 "2009-09-10T12:15:49Z")
If you will look at my posting history, you will see that there is no bigger critic of Obama’s healthcare plan, but the actions by several Republicans, especially Joe Wilson were beyond the pale last night. Checking Blackberrys, waving around copies of your bills, and eye rolling when you are listening to a speech from the President of the United States is disrespectful to say the least. But for a Congressman to shout “You lie!” to a sitting President addressing a Joint Session of Congress deserves censure. I know he apologized, but that’s not good enough. The Republican Party is better than this and we are desperately in need of a leader. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/2 "2009-09-10T12:38:42Z")
Who cares? If Obama is such a weakling that a heckler at a speech, even a Congressman, ruins his day and sends him into a fit of the vapors, he doesn’t belong in the Oval Office. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/3 "2009-09-10T12:39:09Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > The Republican Party is better than this It used to be. Sadly, it isn’t now. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/4 "2009-09-10T12:46:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Who cares? > > If Obama is such a weakling that a heckler at a speech, even a Congressman, ruins his day and sends him into a fit of the vapors, he doesn’t belong in the Oval Office. > > Regards, > Shodan Whats that have to do with the OP? I think Censure with republican support is deserving and would show country we have standards we expect our representatives to uphold. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/5 "2009-09-10T12:47:32Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It used to be. Sadly, it isn’t now. I think you will find that most conservative commentators this morning are critical of Rep. Wilson’s actions. At least, all that I have read so far today have been. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/6 "2009-09-10T12:49:30Z")
I wouldn’t go as far as formal censure, but a for-the-record demand for a formal on-the-floor apology should happen at least. It _ **was** _ a violation of basic etiquette and rules for meetings of the House. Like I said in another thread, **Shodan** , it’s not Westminster, U.S. backbenchers are required to hold their disapproval until recognized by the chair. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/7 "2009-09-10T12:50:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If Obama is such a weakling that a heckler at a speech, even a Congressman, ruins his day and sends him into a fit of the vapors, he doesn’t belong in the Oval Office. I’m sure Obama doesn’t mind a bit, since this sort of thing just makes the Republicans look petty and immature – which probably also has a bit to do with why the members of Wilson’s own party has been so quick to denounce him. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/8 "2009-09-10T13:03:20Z")
He did apologize, so I’d wait to see what happens next. If he stays out of the limelight for a while and appears genuinely contrite, I’d let it go. If he shows up all over Fox News in the next few days, or sends out a fundraising letter in the next few weeks talking about how he bravely stood up to Obama and his socialist commie fascist health care plan, Congress should immediately slap him around. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/9 "2009-09-10T13:11:05Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Whats that have to do with the OP? It was suggested that the heckler should be censured. I feel this is inappropriate. See the connection? Do you really want to set this precedent - heckling draws formal censure? What goes around, comes around, and Democrats will not be in the White House forever, wishful thinking by the SDMB notwithstanding. Face it - if this were Bush or McCain, the SDMB would be bubbling over with praise for anyone who did exactly what this guy did. But it is a Democrat, so the flip-flop is automatic and nearly instantaneous. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/10 "2009-09-10T13:26:43Z")
Let me edit that for you: > [@](#): > > Do you really want to set this precedent - heckling **in the Congressional chambers, in violation of hundreds of years of US Congressional etiquette** draws formal censure? Yes. They’re not talking about throwing the guy out of office. They’re talking about his fellow legislators whacking him on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper for being a bad boy and not acting like a grown-up. There are rules in Congress, just like there are rules in a Courtroom. One of those rules is not speaking out of turn, and treating people with respect **while in the chambers.** If someone heckled at a stump speech, who cares? > [@](#): > > Face it - if this were Bush or McCain, the SDMB would be bubbling over with praise for anyone who did exactly what this guy did. But it is a Democrat, so the flip-flop is automatic and nearly instantaneous. You are deluding yourself if you believe that. The Dems are decorous–even to their own detriment. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/11 "2009-09-10T13:40:11Z")
Look, bad behavior is bad behavior, and I’m not averse to calling such out. But censure seems to be a rare remedy, and I wouldn’t go about applying it unless it was truly warranted. There are numberless things that could be done before censure - like losing committee assignments and the like. And let’s not forget that the member in question apologized. As for other things like checking Blackberries - these were not disruptive of the speech and don’t appear to have broken any rules. Equating this with Representative Wilson’s outburst seems to be a bit misguided to me. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/12 "2009-09-10T13:44:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Face it - if this were Bush or McCain, the SDMB would be bubbling over with praise for anyone who did exactly what this guy did. But it is a Democrat, so the flip-flop is automatic and nearly instantaneous. > > Regards, > Shodan That is without question true for the posters who are so hopelessly partisan that they always fall on their perceived party’s side no matter what the situation. I would add you to that group though as well. I find it hard to believe that if the shoe was on the other foot that you would be using this argument. You’d be talking about respecting the Office and not the man etc. Now that’s just my opinion from reading your posts over the years. You may feel you wouldn’t act that way but I’ve seen little to no proof of your fair mindedness in these matters. The OP disagrees with Obama and yet he thinks that the action of Wilson was out of order. **Bricker** has said that IHO Wilson should be censured. These are not the kind of people you are talking about. You are talking about people like you but on the other side of the argument. Also the issue is not whether Obama’s day was ruined or if he is a weakling. It is about rules. Your country’s way of carrying out politics is different that mine where shouts etc. are common place and within the rules of the House but when rules are broken they are dealt with and people have been removed from the chamber when they break the rules. The debate is if Wilson should be censured for his actions, not if Obama can take it or if people outside of the chamber are hypocrites. Pelosi has said she won’t do anything so it looks like nothing will happen other that typical political opportunistic points scoring. From what I’ve read about the rules of your House it seems he did break the rules and should be punished no matter who he was reacting to. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/13 "2009-09-10T13:59:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Face it - if this were Bush or McCain, the SDMB would be bubbling over with praise for anyone who did exactly what this guy did. Are you saying the SDMB would be bubbling over with praise if someone heckled Bush during a Presidential Address to Congress? I seriously, seriously doubt it. What alternate reality do you inhabit? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/14 "2009-09-10T14:01:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Face it - if this were Bush or McCain, the SDMB would be bubbling over with praise for anyone who did exactly what this guy did. CIte? Face it - you cannot come up with one. I personally think you are wrong; in the last decade or so the Republicans have stooped to new lows in their partisanship, dirty campaigning, and lack of respect for their peers on the opposite side of the fence. It is maybe not as bad as some eras in our history, but it is definitely worse than anything since WWII. While the democrats have been playing catch up in this area, they have not yet gotten close to the level of the Republicans. IMHO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/15 "2009-09-10T14:05:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Face it - if this were Bush or McCain, the SDMB would be bubbling over with praise for anyone who did exactly what this guy did. But it is a Democrat, so the flip-flop is automatic and nearly instantaneous. Bullshit. I bleed blue, and I’d be calling for the head of any Dem who behaved this way. The very best that be said about Wilson is that the boy has clearly had no home training. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/16 "2009-09-10T14:11:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Who cares? > > If Obama is such a weakling that a heckler at a speech, even a Congressman, ruins his day and sends him into a fit of the vapors, he doesn’t belong in the Oval Office. > > Regards, > Shodan Didn’t you hear? Obama was so upset by Wilson’s remarks that he’s giving his resignation speech right now. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/17 "2009-09-10T14:19:44Z")
Everyone is asking for a cite for the straight dope’s behavior if the situation would have been reversed. I want to see a cite for the “fit of vapors” part. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/18 "2009-09-10T14:21:55Z")
Has anything similar to this happened before? ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/19 "2009-09-10T14:24:24Z")
I think he’s already being punished enough. His own party members have called him out on his innappropriate outburst, he’s had to apologize, he’s made himself look like a complete child in his first and likely last moment in the national spotlight, and he’s energized his opponent’s campaign fund with over $100,000 so far and that number is rising fast. Rep. Wilson shot himself in the foot and I think he knows it. Good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/20 "2009-09-10T14:25:34Z")
Yes. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Edward D. Holbrook (D-ID Ter.) was censured on February 4, 1869 for using unparliamentary language on the House floor. > **[Censure in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censure_in_the_United_States)** > > Censure is a formal, public, group condemnation of an individual, often a group member, whose actions run counter to the group's acceptable standards for individual behavior. In the United States, governmental censure is done when a body's members wish to publicly reprimand the president of the United States, a member of Congress, a judge or a cabinet member. It is a formal statement of disapproval. > The United States Constitution specifically grants impeachment and conviction powers, respect... So, to answer **Shodan** ’s question, I am not concerned about setting a precedent here, because the precedent has already been set. ETA: Although personally speaking, I don’t think censure is necessary, because as has been pointed already, the guy made himself look like such an ass that no further official punishment is necessary. Also, allowing him to go uncensured makes the Democratic leadership look like they’re taking the high road. Again, IMO. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546.md?page=2)