# Censure for Rep. Joe Wilson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 10, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546 "2009-09-10T12:15:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/21 "2009-09-10T14:52:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It was suggested that the heckler should be censured. I feel this is inappropriate. See the connection? No. Don’t. Spell it out. The issue is what the heckler did. The fact that Obama could handle it with a mere pause and withering look in no way informs as to the inappropriateness of the action and the appropriate response of the body to the misbehavior. I do not think formal censure is required and politically no Dem should suggest it. Now a GOP leader may choose to as part of internal posturing within the party, but that is another subject. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/22 "2009-09-10T14:54:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you really want to set this precedent - heckling draws formal censure? There is no precedent to set. Disruptive outbursts on the floor are already against the rules of Congress. What is needed now is enforcement of those rules via censure of a violator thereof. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/23 "2009-09-10T14:55:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Who cares? > > If Obama is such a weakling that a heckler at a speech, even a Congressman, ruins his day and sends him into a fit of the vapors, he doesn’t belong in the Oval Office. > > Regards, > Shodan Even given your follow up, this is an extraordinary non sequitur. I agree with yojimbo that your response to the opposite situation, a favoured President of yours, would be a photo negative of this bizarre dismissal. Nor do I think an objective reading of this board suggests that a large number of the American Leftists here would be hooting in approval. A few perhaps, but largely I would read that they would follow the jtgain example. To their credit. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/24 "2009-09-10T14:57:41Z")
Have we heard anything from the Beck/Limbaugh Axis of Anal? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/25 "2009-09-10T15:04:16Z")
> [@omgzebras](#): > > I think he’s already being punished enough. His own party members have called him out on his innappropriate outburst, he’s had to apologize, he’s made himself look like a complete child in his first and likely last moment in the national spotlight, and he’s energized his opponent’s campaign fund with over $100,000 so far and that number is rising fast. > > Rep. Wilson shot himself in the foot and I think he knows it. Good enough for me. Generally I am with this. However, political decorum across the board seems to be hitting all time lows (at least in my lifetime) and that is saying something. I would like to think that at least the decorum that is expected while in session, at the very least, needs to be strongly defended. If Congress itself is allowed to devolve into a Town Hall(esque) style of forum akin to what we saw last month it would signal the utter debasement of our political system. As such I think it would be appropriate for Congress to send an official (and bi-partisan) message in this case that such behavior absolutely will not be tolerated. They need to act like adults and the next person who may think such an outburst won’t get off as lightly. I am not asking for his head on a plate or anything. As noted above just the equivalent of a slap on the wrist. Make him stand and give formal apology on the floor not only to the president but also to Congress itself (or something). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/26 "2009-09-10T15:07:24Z")
I love the guy! Medal of Free Dumb! Thanks, Joe! You did more to advance our cause in two words than The One did in a thousand ! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/27 "2009-09-10T15:08:55Z")
Wilson is just following the pattern the repubs have set. Say no, reject everything. Vote in mass against everything they offer. Scream loudly, and don’t let the dems be heard. This was not the format for it. Wilson embarrassed himself and the party. It is what Rush or Beck would have done if they were there. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/28 "2009-09-10T15:11:35Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I think you will find that most conservative commentators this morning are critical of Rep. Wilson’s actions. I am intrigued by this part the most. Will we see an even bigger divide between the intelligent, not hate filled conseratives and the frothing at the mouth, “librul’s is ruining our country” drooling idiots? Should be interesting to see it play out. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/29 "2009-09-10T15:12:43Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It is what Rush or Beck would have done if they were there. I bet even those two would not have done such an outburst. I could see them pushing the line by making faces or snickering derisively and maybe pantomiming jerking off but I doubt they’d have vocally heckled the president in that forum. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/30 "2009-09-10T15:17:53Z")
Perhaps Wilson thought he was at a Town Hall meeting. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/31 "2009-09-10T15:22:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Have we heard anything from the Beck/Limbaugh Axis of Anal? I’ve heard Rove was amused. I thought that took dead kittens. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/32 "2009-09-10T15:26:51Z")
Censure him, but hold him up as a shining example of Republican conservative tactics. Milk this guy’s outburst for all we can get out of it until we get universal health care. Then send him a “Thank You” package for doing so much to advance the cause of health care ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/33 "2009-09-10T15:31:59Z")
Six people have been censured in the history of the House for unparliamentary language, but Holbrook’s case is maybe appropriate here. As the New York Times at the time put it: > [@](#): > > MR. HOLBROOK thought [General Butler’s remarks about corruption in the Bureau of Indian Affairs were] personal, and he interrupted GEN. BUTLER and told him he was uttering what was unqualifiedly false, and that he (BUTLER) knew it was false. MR. HOLBROOK was then given an opportunity to withdraw (his words), which he refused to do in a sort of Border-ruffian spirit. A vote of censure was then unanimously ordered and he was brought before the bar of the House under arrest, and the Speaker administered the censure of the House in severe terms. If you’re curious as to some other things that Congress has decided was “unparliamentary language”, here are some. These all led to censure motions, or withdrawal of the statements to avoid censure: > [@](#): > > Mr. White. It is merely a question of veracity. I heard him make the > statement myself. > Mr. Kelley. And I denounce the statement as the ravings of a maniac > or a deliberate lie. > Mr. White. The gentleman may be scoundrel enough to make that > statement. > [@](#): > > It is so outrageous, so damnable, that nobody but a gambler or > cutthroat would have thought of tacking such a thing as that to such a > bill as this. > [@](#): > > I desire simply to say that I did the other day, knowing full well > the meaning of the words and that I was responsible for them, denounce > Mr. Campbell as a liar and a perjurer. I want to say that I accept and > am willing to believe that I have as great confidence in the character > of Mr. Campbell as I have in the character of the gentleman who makes > this attack upon me. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/34 "2009-09-10T15:34:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If Obama is such a weakling that a heckler at a speech, even a Congressman, ruins his day and sends him into a fit of the vapors, he doesn’t belong in the Oval Office. Did his response really look like that to you? _Really_? :dubious: BTW, each House is responsible for addressing the conduct of its own members. The President has nothing to do with it. Since you seem not to know, that is. Nice try with the timeworn “Well, your guys would have been just as bad!” crap. Not only a tu quoque, something you deplore when others use it, but an imaginary one at that. But I’m sure you’re proud of it anyway, right? ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/35 "2009-09-10T15:38:04Z")
Censure? No, the bottom line this is simply a Congressman without any tact. To yell this was inappropriate and he already looks a fool in front of everyone for doing it. Should we waste all this time on a procedure that does nothing to punish someone? No, even in a court the judge would not usually give you a contempt violation without a warning. I’m not saying what he did was right, it was wrong and inappropriate, but he already looks stupid for saying it and I’m sure whoever runs against him at election time is already planning to use it for his/her advantage. He already looks like an idiot that’s enough ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/36 "2009-09-10T15:41:20Z")
Not the first time, won’t be the last… [Bush booed by democrats during 2005 State of The Union Address](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/10/flashback_democrats_boo_bush_at_2005_state_of_the_union.html) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/37 "2009-09-10T15:43:30Z")
It most certainly is unprecedented (within the last 140 years at least), but I think the jerk should be punished at the polls, and within his own party. Calling for censure would make the Dems look petty. But I think the worst thing Wilson did was not heckling, but to stand up in the halls of Congress and call the President a liar to his face. (And on something that is factually verifiable, to boot.) That is beyond the pale…in less enlightened times, that would’ve been a challenge to his honor; gloves would be slapped, seconds would meet. I would’ve directed the Sergeant at Arms to drag the jerk from the chamber by his collar. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/38 "2009-09-10T15:43:57Z")
There’s no doubt that Wilson was a flaming asshole. But, if he had yelled out during a non-presidential, ordinary House session, he would’ve been gaveled down by the chair, verbally admonished, mumbled an apology and that would be the end of it. It wouldn’t even have been mentioned by a Congressional newspaper like _Roll Call._ He did a dumb thing, he got called out by his own party, he apologized. It’s time to move on. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/39 "2009-09-10T15:49:32Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Not the first time, won’t be the last… Awww, the poor baby! And just because he was lying through his teeth, and led us into a futile and ruinously expensive war, causing the deaths of untold thousands of innocent victims? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/40 "2009-09-10T15:49:33Z")
It is SHODANIZING. When I was a kid and my dad got on me, I found if I said" what about what my brother did", I was told ,we are not talking about your brother. SHODAN has a right to start a thread about what some un-named dems may ,or may not have done long ago , if he chooses. But the response he relies on over and over again is very immature and dishonest regarding the discussion. It does not deal with the subject. It is a childish attempt to change it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546.md?page=3)