# Censure for Rep. Joe Wilson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 10, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546 "2009-09-10T12:15:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/41 "2009-09-10T15:53:10Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It is SHODANIZING. When I was a kid and my dad got on me, I found if I said" what about what my brother did", I was told ,we are not talking about your brother. SHODAN has a right to start a thread about what some un-named dems may ,or may not have done long ago , if he chooses. But the response he relies on over and over again is very immature and dishonest regarding the discussion. It does not deal with the subject. It is a childish attempt to change it. Beyond that, this has fuckall to do with Obama’s “feelings.” Presidents endure death-threats and assassination attempts, fer chrissakes, and a few times the attempts have been successful. I don’t think Obama is crying in his coffee over Mr. Wilson behaving like a teenager, but that’s not the point. The issue is over the appropriate consequence for Mr. Wilson’s highly inappropriate actions. Nobody cares about Obama’s “feelings.” ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/42 "2009-09-10T15:59:18Z")
Formal censure is a pretty heavy penalty to put on someone. I think it may be a little harsh in this instance, as I’m not aware of any similar incidents drawing formal censure. If I’m not mistaken, I think Dick Cheney told someone to go fuck themselves while speaking in an official session. That said, the conduct by Congressional Republicans last night was not a proud moment for the party. Seems like I remember protesters, including Cindy Whatsherface, being removed from the chamber during one of the Bush SotU addresses. I see no reason why similar measures were not employed against those disrupting last night’s speach. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/43 "2009-09-10T16:00:30Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Not the first time, won’t be the last… > > [Bush booed by democrats during 2005 State of The Union Address](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/10/flashback_democrats_boo_bush_at_2005_state_of_the_union.html) As is being discussed in the pit thread, I can’t help but feel there is quite a difference between booing and outright making claims of lying. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/44 "2009-09-10T16:01:18Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Not the first time, won’t be the last… > > [Bush booed by democrats during 2005 State of The Union Address](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/10/flashback_democrats_boo_bush_at_2005_state_of_the_union.html) Not quite the same thing. There are pauses for applause built into every presidential address, so presidents invite comment (en masse, and almost always positive) during their speech. If that comment happens to be negative…tough noogies. Wilson’s response was verbal, and personal. He didn’t boo during an applause line; he called Obama a liar. Big diff. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/45 "2009-09-10T16:02:15Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Not the first time, won’t be the last… > > [Bush booed by democrats during 2005 State of The Union Address](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/10/flashback_democrats_boo_bush_at_2005_state_of_the_union.html) I think the direct outburst calling the president a liar is of a markedly different character. Groups of people will laugh or grumble and so on during a speech and that generally can slide by. If you want apples-to-apples comparison to your link consider what else the republicans did last night (read below). No one is fussing over that stuff (much). > [@](#): > > Wilson was only the most flagrant. There was booing from House Republicans when the president caricatured a conservative argument by saying they would “leave individuals to buy health insurance on their own.” They hissed when he protested their “scare tactics.” They grumbled as they do in Britain’s House of Commons when Obama spoke of the “blizzard of charges and countercharges.” > > When he asserted that “nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have,” there was scoffing and outright laughter on the GOP side. Rep. Jeb Hensarling (Tex.) shook his head in disbelief. Several Republicans shouted “What plan?” and Rep. Louis Gohmert (Tex.) waved at Obama a handwritten poster he made on a letter-size piece of paper: “WHAT PLAN?” Gohmert then took that down and replaced it with another handmade poster that said “WHAT BILL?” > > SOURCE: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/09/AR2009090902298.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2009090903520](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/09/AR2009090902298.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2009090903520) ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/46 "2009-09-10T16:05:26Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > As is being discussed in the pit thread, I can’t help but feel there is quite a difference between booing and outright making claims of lying. Not just making an outright claim of lying, but apparently being unable to control himself, and shouting Liar! Liar! Pants on Fire! loudly in the middle of a Presidential address to Congress. Compose yourself, already, or sit in the corner with the rest of the out of control children. For the record, my opinion is censuring might be a bit harsh, but hopefully, the fallout will be punishment enough, and he’ll lose politically big time. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/47 "2009-09-10T16:06:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Awww, the poor baby! And just because he was lying through his teeth, and led us into a futile and ruinously expensive war, causing the deaths of untold thousands of innocent victims? Ha, if anything get’s old, it’s this. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/48 "2009-09-10T16:07:45Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I wouldn’t go as far as formal censure, but a for-the-record demand for a formal on-the-floor apology should happen at least. It _ **was** _ a violation of basic etiquette and rules for meetings of the House. Like I said in another thread, **Shodan** , it’s not Westminster, U.S. backbenchers are required to hold their disapproval until recognized by the chair. Even under the Westminster system, (which can be quite vociferous and antagonistic) if a member uses unparliamentary language (most specifically accusing another member of lying), then the house speaker will intervene and warn the member. Using the terms “lying” “lier” “pig” “jerk” “sleazeball” etc. is considered to be unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/49 "2009-09-10T16:09:30Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Ha, if anything get’s old, it’s this. Yes, yes… It’s all water under the bridge now… Let’s not dredge up ancient history and argue over who killed who, and who started wars based on cherry picked “intelligence”. It’s time to move on now, and complain about socialists under the bed! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/50 "2009-09-10T16:14:30Z")
I say let it pass. Given the context of his protest, a motion to censure Wilson would only focus public attention on the non-issue of illegal-immigrant coverage when the health-care debate should be focusing on more serious considerations. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/51 "2009-09-10T16:20:06Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Yes, yes… It’s all water under the bridge now… Let’s not dredge up ancient history and argue over who killed who, and who started wars based on cherry picked “intelligence”. > > It’s time to move on now, and complain about socialists under the bed! Cite to me complaining about socialists under the bed and I will rescind my post. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/52 "2009-09-10T16:22:46Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Ha, if anything get’s old, it’s this. I doubt Bush likes being reminded of it either, but its truth does not diminish with repetition. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/53 "2009-09-10T16:22:56Z")
I agree,. By the time the bill passes the illegals will have been granted amnesty and won’t be illegal anymore anyway… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/54 "2009-09-10T16:24:09Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Cite to me complaining about socialists under the bed and I will rescind my post. \ I don’t seem to see where I accused you of complaining about socialists under the bed. I merely exhorted us all to ignore the past, move on, and START complaining about socialists under the bed. Live in the present man! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/55 "2009-09-10T16:26:23Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I doubt Bush likes being reminded of it either, but its truth does not diminish with repetition. Nor do its consequences. Newsflash, **Kearsen** : Our people are fighting and dying in Iraq \*today \*because of Bush’s lies, and the enthusiastic swallowing of them by people like you. Today. Is that “old”? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/56 "2009-09-10T16:34:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Nor do its consequences. > > Newsflash, **Kearsen** : Our people are fighting and dying in Iraq \*today \*because of Bush’s lies, and the enthusiastic swallowing of them by people like you. Today. Is that “old”? You cannot seriously blame today’s fighting and dieing on Bush. If you do then you have a distorted sense of reality. If Obama wanted OUR people out of Iraq, then they would be back. Afghanistan? In fact, why are they not back? What are our formal objectives in Afghanistan? You are reaching, unless you can show me where I was in support of the war. Do not ass-u-me or you might be wrong, kinda like now. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/57 "2009-09-10T16:36:20Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > You cannot seriously blame today’s fighting and dieing on Bush. I most certainly can. As Colin Powell warned, “if you break it, you buy it.” Bush broke it and we’re going to be paying for it through several presidential administrations. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/58 "2009-09-10T16:39:48Z")
The flasback to 2005 was brought to us by **flickster**. If **Kearsen** doesn’t approve of it, perhaps those two should take it up in a new thread and leave this one for discussing the present situation. I do think Wilson embarrassed himself and his allies, and I fear formal censure proceedings run several risks: they distract from more important matters, they transform Wilson from disruptive jackhole to persecuted martyr, and if they don’t result in an actual censure they could be perceived to vindicate him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/59 "2009-09-10T16:41:00Z")
In a time when members of Congress say things that are so much more inflammatory and outlandish than this, it seems quaint to talk about censuring a Congressman for interrupting the president and calling him a liar. I’m not that hung up on respect for the office of the president or anything of that type, but it’s not that freaking hard to sit there for a while and let the guy talk, _then_ go back to your constituents and oppose it. Somehow this was too much for Wilson, which is staggering in its own way. He looked like an asshole, and so did the guy with the signs. It’s not a big issue to me either way, but I think I’d support censure. (Politically, though, it would probably be better for the Democrats to say nothing and just point to what he did.) I thought the booing was silly, but not new to these kinds of speeches. The BlackBerry checking made Cantor look schmucky, but professionally I suppose he needs to do that. (Use the BlackBerry, I mean, not be a schmuck.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546/60 "2009-09-10T16:41:00Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > You cannot seriously blame today’s fighting and dieing on Bush. Who started the war? Or are you seriously urging Obama to, oh, what’s the saying, “cut and run like a traitorous coward”, or something like that? > [@](#): > > Afghanistan? Bush didn’t lie us into that one. Nobody did. Irrelevant. > [@](#): > > You are reaching, unless you can show me where I was in support of the war. I can show you where you call any discussion of it “old”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/censure-for-rep-joe-wilson/509546.md?page=4)