# Census to show first decline of white population **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 25, 2021, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986 "2021-06-25T04:54:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/21 "2021-06-28T14:20:26Z")
> [@Tfletch1](#): > > The Irish, Swedish, and Germans all have similar “shades” of skin color. Tell that to Benjamin Franklin… ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/22 "2021-06-28T14:24:40Z")
Ben has the excuse of living in the 18th century and not knowing a thing about genetics or biology. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/23 "2021-06-28T14:28:27Z")
Historically, in many times and places, the mingling of ethnicities has resulted in a vast, even exponential, increase in the diversity of things like cuisine, not a decrease. Like, I’ll be the first to admit that the American south has the best cuisine on the continent, especially in areas like Louisiana. Why? Because of the mingling of so many cultures there. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/24 "2021-06-28T14:31:06Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > In some hypothetical diverse future, Every couple will be diverse, and every child will be of mixed ethnicity. They will then be increasingly dissimilar shade of brown. Diversity will then be zero, with no-one of visibly different ancestry to mate with. The miracle of diversity will be lost forever. All restaurants with the same fare. Then what? Isn’t your wife from the Philippines? Why are you trying to destroy Filipino cuisine!? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/25 "2021-06-28T14:37:17Z")
I think the cuisine issue is interesting because deep assimilation doesn’t tend to lead to a cuisine disappearing, but at the same time I think the more assimilated an immigrant population gets the more “localized” and less “authentic” (to the home country) the cuisine gets. You can definitely see this with Italian cuisine, which was considered a novelty to Anglo Americans in the early 20th century, and was considered “an American joke” to native Italians by the 21st century. Right now, some of our most popular immigrant cuisines are fueled by first and second generation immigrant families, and I think it’s hard to predict how they will develop in the future. At the same time not every ethnic group has tracked the “Irish, German and Italian” model precisely. I think some of it is tied into cohesive and distinct communities. The early eras of, for example, German immigration saw Germans (who oft were a little more middle class) settling in farming communities with exclusively other German settler families. These communities remained cohesive and apart in many cases until around the early 20th century. As those communities broke up and mixed in with the majority population, the number of German language speakers (and newspapers) plummeted, and by the 21st century there is virtually no authentic German culture in the United States. Instead there are kitschy things like Columbus, OH German Village that attempt to capitalize on the historic presence of a bona fide German American community that has long since ceased to exist. There are some counter examples though, there Mexican population in the Southwest is quite old, with some families having lived there since before those areas were incorporated into the United States, and they have generally been able to maintain a distinct cultural presence longer than some other groups. Even in that group assimilation to the majority culture tends to be increasing. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/26 "2021-06-28T14:38:14Z")
Consider one portion of north-east continental Europe where a Celtic population was conquered by the Romans, leading to introduction of a Latin-based language, and then infiltrated by various Germanic tribes, who picked up the Latinate language, interbred with the Celts (the whole nation of Celto-Germans speaking a Romance language is named after one of the Germanic tribes). And yet, France is not a blandly uniform place (Charles de Gaulle complained “How can anyone govern a nation that has two hundred and forty-six different kinds of cheese?”). Today’s mixture of ethnicities is tomorrow’s new ethnicity - and even then, there is internal variety. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/27 "2021-06-28T14:41:41Z")
Are you referring to France as “north-east continental Europe”? That would be a strange position. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/28 "2021-06-28T14:47:33Z")
Sorry - North-west (still not a great description - but better than completely wrong) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/29 "2021-06-28T16:46:13Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > They will then be increasingly dissimilar shade of brown. If dissimilarity increases, that means more diversity. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/30 "2021-06-28T17:35:53Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > All restaurants with the same fare. Nonsense. People can still scavenge out of separate-but-equal ethnic dumpsters. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/31 "2021-06-28T19:35:52Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > In some hypothetical diverse future, Every couple will be diverse, and every child will be of mixed ethnicity. They will then be increasingly dissimilar shade of brown. Diversity will then be zero, with no-one of visibly different ancestry to mate with. The miracle of diversity will be lost forever. All restaurants with the same fare. Then what? _And all creeds and kinds_ _And colors of us are blending_ _Till I suppose ten million years from now_ _We’ll all be just alike_ _Same color, same size_ _Working together_ _And maybe we’ll have all of the fascists_ _Out of the way by then, maybe so_ Woody Guthrie , set to tune by Billy Bragg and Wilco: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BcxIMvI8qBs/hqdefault.jpg "She Came Along to Me - Billy Bragg and Wilco") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcxIMvI8qBs) ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/32 "2021-06-29T03:14:45Z")
Look. You have 20 people, ten black and ten white, That is diversity. Stir well and fast forward a few generations and you have 18 brown, one white, one black. That’s NOT diversity. Which do you want? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/33 "2021-06-29T03:16:47Z")
Diversity isn’t skin color. Is northern US culture and cuisine and lots of things like southern US culture and cuisine etc? No. It’s diverse, no need to invoke shades of human. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/34 "2021-06-29T08:05:15Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Look. You have 20 people, ten black and ten white, That is diversity. Stir well and fast forward a few generations and you have 18 brown, one white, one black. That’s NOT diversity. Which do you want? Look. You’ll have 20 people who still don’t look alike, even in skin color. You’ll also still have a mix of genders, cultures, faiths, political beliefs, sexual orientations, socio-economic classes, abilities and personal experiences. That’s diversity. As arguments for racial segregation go, saying we need it to maintain diversity is a pretty silly one. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/35 "2021-06-29T11:02:57Z")
Sorry, I mis-read the OP. I thought it referred to white population, not about “genders, cultures, faiths, political beliefs, sexual orientations, socio-economic classes, abilities and personal experiences.” My apologies for side-tracking the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/36 "2021-06-29T12:58:22Z")
You sidetracked it by insisting that racial diversity would be lost, and by the implication that this somehow justifies racial segregation in reproduction. But on the plus side you’ve gone some way toward supporting the statement in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/37 "2021-06-29T14:07:45Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Look. You have 20 people, ten black and ten white, That is diversity. Stir well and fast forward a few generations and you have 18 brown, one white, one black. That’s NOT diversity. Which do you want? So who does this “stirring”? Mating and reproduction are individual choices and have nothing to do with majorities and minorities. Just because the white population is declining, doesn’t mean every reproducing couple is instantaneously multiracial. There will always be people who are, to various degrees, white, black, brown, etc., and all combinations thereof. There will always be diversity. So what exactly are you worried about? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/38 "2021-06-29T14:18:22Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You sidetracked it by insisting that racial diversity would be lost, and by the implication that this somehow justifies racial segregation in reproduction. > > But on the plus side you’ve gone some way toward supporting the statement in the OP. 1. My post was strictly on topic, then projected an outcome I apologize if that is against forum rules. 2. What did I say that implied any opinion that any outcome would be favorable or not? 3. The statement in the OP was an undisputed statistical fact, which is not up far “support”. 4. It is other posters here who clearly believes a public policy is justified by desired outcome, ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/39 "2021-06-29T14:27:50Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > - My post was strictly on topic, then projected an outcome I apologize if that is against forum rules. No one is claiming that your posts are “against forum rules”, and I’m not sure why you would think anyone was. Your projected outcome, however, is overly simplistic and not remotely in line with how genetics work. > [@](#): > > - What did I say that implied any opinion that any outcome would be favorable or not? “Diversity will then be zero, with no-one of visibly different ancestry to mate with. The miracle of diversity will be lost forever.” > [@](#): > > - The statement in the OP was an undisputed statistical fact, which is not up far “support”. If you say so. > [@](#): > > - It is other posters here who clearly believes a public policy is justified by desired outcome, Is it? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/40 "2021-06-29T16:46:34Z")
To elaborate with a horribly oversimplified example 20 people: 10 with pale skin, blonde hair, blue eyes, 10 with darker skin, dark hair, brown eyes. Diversity - fairly low: everybody falls into two classes Later: 20 people. Some with (perhaps not quite as pale as in the original population) skin, dark hair and blue eyes, some with brown skin, blonde hair and blue eyes, some with black (perhaps not quite as dark as in the earlier population) skin, blue eyes, and dark hair, etc. Much more diversity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986.md?page=3)